How much difference

yes but
accuracy has been shown with no turn necks,
way in excess of hunting needs and still
able to chamber a factory round.

if i was worried about ammo on the shelf,
i would not be looking at either of these
two chamberings.
 
Rflshootr said:
LOL here we go!!
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OK.....so now that you've stepped in, tell us all how fast you can load your .243AI's (I've had 7, 5 different reamer configurations) and get 10 or more reloads from them.....

I'm guessing you're one of these guys who claims "3250fps" on the innertube but you've never actually reloaded a case more than 5 times...

Or, you've never actually built any, much less used them in competition.
 
John Kielly said:
And Ackley too in one case.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....

Well I've easily found 150fps from the standard to the Palma cases in 308 with small bullets and back when the 6.5X47L cases came out I switched several 30X44 and 30X45 HBR barrels directly from standard Lapua and Winchester 308 cases to the new 6.5X47's and got similar results.

I see no reason the new 6.5 Creedmoor won't exhibit the same characteristics.

(To those who don't know why I'm listing seemingly unrelated cases....These cases, from 6BR to 6.5X47L to 308 Palma to (hopefully) the new 6.5 Creedmoor share the same casehead. Basically you can make them all from 308 Palma brass. Just like using URBR back in the day except that the Rem stuff was (is) rubbish)

Conversely, back when Shehane was running .284 cases and winning everything on the planet I tried these cases out and was disappointed. Rebated casehead and large primer just didn't make pressure well for me. About the time they started to burn it was bye bye primer pockets...

And in this vein I spent beaucoup money trying to get the 243AI up to pressure. No Go. I actually paid good money to have my 'smith chop down 3 .243AI's and rechamber them in 6BR....SAME BARRELS....

Of course now. with 308 Palma cases the .243 becomes useful again altho I've since switched to 35* shoulders because POA-style 243AI's won't resize properly.

I'll be surprised if the .284 case will hang with the new cases over the competitive haul but if they do, I'm happy to be proven wrong.

By The Facts :)
 
alinwa said:
OK.....so now that you've stepped in, tell us all how fast you can load your .243AI's (I've had 7, 5 different reamer configurations) and get 10 or more reloads from them.....

I'm guessing you're one of these guys who claims "3250fps" on the innertube but you've never actually reloaded a case more than 5 times...

Or, you've never actually built any, much less used them in competition.
Click to expand...

Al you are absolutely, positively, without a shadow of a doubt,100% correct. But what I was referring to was the original post was about 7mm's and hunting rifles. Somehow that got off on a tangent...........feel better now?
 
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Rflshootr...........I was referring to was the original post was about 7mm's and hunting rifles. Somehow that got off on a tangent...........[/QUOTE said:
Thank you for being civil.

I've never owned a 7-08 nor made brass for one but I'm fairly familiar with the 284 case. And I've made dozens of iterations of the small primer cases.

I can't argue with Kielly's experience (the key being EXPERIENCE) and I've never actually done what I'm proposing so I'm 'wayyy out on a slippery limb.......and maybe even unknowingly blowing big billowing smoke....but I'd be righteously blown away if the 284 case will beat a small primer 7-08 by 100fps even with 30% more capacity. And it would do so at a much lower pressure which generally means higher ES.

In point of fact, I'll be righteously blown if the 284 EVER re-experiences it's former glory as a competitive LR case. For this to happen it would have to be produced by Lapua.....with a small primer/flashhole :) LOL!!!

This from a guy who back in the early 90's memorized Brennan's 'Precision Shooting at 1000 Yards" and spent lots of money on stuff that fell right on it's face. That book was outdated before it hit print. By the time I had guns built I was two generations behind the curve! I've bought into a lot of other people's speculations......I try hard now to share only factual, data-driven ideas.

AND.....back in '93-'94 when I came on this shooting board claiming 2900fps with 105's from the 6BR....WHEWWW!!!!
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Al....you're welcome.

Maybe the next time I have a couple extra dollars laying around I'll buy a box of 308 palma brass, neck it down to 7mm and do some chrono testing to see what happens and share the results. My gut says it won't make that big of a difference in a Hunting Rifle. Maybe I'll be surprised, maybe not. But part of the fun is experimenting just to see what happens if......
 
alinwa said:
Thank you for being civil.

In point of fact, I'll be righteously blown if the 284 EVER re-experiences it's former glory as a competitive LR case. !
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IF YOU LOOK AT f class, some of the record holders are in long throat straight 284 win.
i know one that has won in 600/1000 br in the last couple of years.
look up dave gosnell in f class records
 
CMaier said:
IF YOU LOOK AT f class, some of the record holders are in long throat straight 284 win.
i know one that has won in 600/1000 br in the last couple of years.
look up dave gosnell in f class records
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Well yeahh.....I do forget about those venues where accuracy is secondary. People also win competitions standing on their hind feet or peering through peeps shooting wooden battle rifles at 20ft targets.

My bad.

So.......I don't predict the 284 to be taking over ACCURACY VENUES like BR.
 
Rflshootr said:
Al....you're welcome.

Maybe the next time I have a couple extra dollars laying around I'll buy a box of 308 palma brass, neck it down to 7mm and do some chrono testing to see what happens and share the results. My gut says it won't make that big of a difference in a Hunting Rifle. Maybe I'll be surprised, maybe not. But part of the fun is experimenting just to see what happens if......
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I'm seriously confused by your continued use of the term "Hunting Rifle" as though it's somehow different from others?

In my world a hunting rifle costs three times a full-blown state-of-the-art Bench Rest Rifle.

BR guns are cheap......hog 'em out, glue 'em together and SHOOT!

easy-peasy
 
Well I guess I'm just not that fancy to spend 3x the cost of a BR rifle to drag up and down hills and through the woods to kill a deer......my pocket says more like 1/2 the cost as long as it goes "bang" and whatever it is pointing at dies. That's really all I need. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
 
you selectively skipped the part where he shoots and WINS
600/1000 BENCHREST matches WITH THE SAME RIFLE he uses in f class.
records in br, no; wins in br yes;
setting the br community on fire , no.


alinwa said:
Well yeahh.....I do forget about those venues where accuracy is secondary. People also win competitions standing on their hind feet or peering through peeps shooting wooden battle rifles at 20ft targets.

My bad.

So.......I don't predict the 284 to be taking over ACCURACY VENUES like BR.
Click to expand...
 
Rflshootr said:
Well I guess I'm just not that fancy to spend 3x the cost of a BR rifle to drag up and down hills and through the woods to kill a deer......my pocket says more like 1/2 the cost as long as it goes "bang" and whatever it is pointing at dies. That's really all I need. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Click to expand...

I build rifles for people to shoot stuff wayyy out there, ethically. Not modified Weatherby's or slapped together 338 Lapuas but stuff that actually agg's under 1/4moa with VLD-style hunting bullets. In a repeater....with bullets in a magazine....This type rifle costs a lot more than a BR gun.

But the guys that use them aren't tromping through the swamp hunting deers in Minn-DeSoda either. For that a 300 Savage Model 99 fills the hand nicely :)
 
CMaier said:
you selectively skipped the part where he shoots and WINS
600/1000 BENCHREST matches WITH THE SAME RIFLE he uses in f class.
records in br, no; wins in br yes;
setting the br community on fire , no.
Click to expand...

I'm not really disagreeing with you, and I'm not denigrating F-Class nor any other venue. I am just geared towards raw accuracy potential.

I din't selectively skip them, I am just saying that this setup can't be built to the accuracy standard of some others..
 
Old Rem BR cases had small primers

alinwa said:
The new cases have only been out for a couple yrs....maybe three?
Click to expand...

There were also some 30-30 cases made with small primer holes, I have had and still have some of them., 308's, BR cases and the American 30-30 brass.

Pete
 
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