Do windflags lie?

It seems that everyone thinks of the wind like we see it it in a wind tunnel. Nice linear flow with the smoke or flag steaming along the object being tested. The wind in the real (outside) world is more like white water in a fast moving stream. It eddies and boils around objects with back flows and pressure differences. The wind in the (moving) shade from a cloud will often have more pressure. The ground and everything around influences the flows and speed of the wind. When you add to the mix the very real impact of mirage and light changes it is a wonder that we shoot any decent groups.

Speaking of groups I would like to hear about the real average groups instead of the once in a lifetime best group fired that it seems most people consider to be the group that reflects the accuracy of their guns.
 
I dont think wind flags lie, they are only able to part of the story. Wind flags are made to detect horizontal movement and not virtical movement, especially in what appears to be calm conditions
 
Well obviously wind flags only give an indication of wind in that location only. No one expects it to tell you what the wind is doing 20 feet from it either.

This thread is about wind at the flag, and that flags inability to tell you much other than a general direction and estimated speed. It is in no way very accurate. It is slow and at times does not even pick up a small change in velocity. This means the flags lie plain and simple.
 
i have stopped shooting when the flags stop spinning!! what should have been a dead on x shot was a 12:00 high shot. i like the flags for myself.
 
Wind Flags

I notice that DJ's, Joe Besche, Darrel Barnes, Dan Killough's, Jerry Graves, Bob Barnhart, Mark Meadows and Kirk Gastons flags don't lie as often as mine do. Anyone else notice that?
 
James, that was part of the initial post in that there flags lie also, but they know how to read them better, or are at least familiar with there flags limitations. Until a month or so ago, I had blind faith in what they told me.
But, after too many misses with the same reading, and too many misses and you see the flags change just AFTER you miss a shot, I was/am fed up.

The speed changes are where I was getting killed. The angle change is easy to see. When you have a shot go out at 10 or 4 from a 3 o'clock wind, that tells of a speed change.
 
James,

Cliff Keesee told me he took all his flags to the local sheriff and had him give them a lie detector test. Think I bought the ones that failed the test.:(

Ken
 
Knowing what I knew about my flags, I decided to build some new ones with the same build qualities as the indicator, light and responsive that is.

The final weight is around 1/3 of my normal flag, and this is even without tails or props on my normal flag. The shaft and vane make up the new one with a light tail and then going by clock position on the vane, and angle on the indicator.

So, the shaft and vane are 1/3 weight of the old and slow one.
With an even, balanced set up on each, the new one is never behind the indicator on a direction change. If you remember, the old one was quite slow in reaction to the indicator. Now I know why.

Mine uses delrin hubs sitting on a steel post. The only thing I can figure, is that with the old heavy one, is that friction is playing a large role in how the flag reacts.

As good as I thought they were, well, they were junk compared to the new ones.
 
Wind probes

Check out gene beggs article on snipers paradise. Very well
spoken. Also check out orlando flags & probes he has come up with a turbine on his probes looks & sounds good. I thikn the probe is the best thing for br shooters that hase happened in a while, if you will take the time to study them & shoot when they tell you.
Boer
 
Beau
Didn't you know that sighters are always shot during the best conditions !
Fred K
 
I have noticed that

Most missed shots are the shooters fault.. While just sitting back and watching all the diffrent conditions and targets over the last couple matches i have noticed the mistakes that causes the missed shots almost every time.. For instance if iam watching a shooter shooting a target from start to finish and shoots a bad 50 ot 25 you can usally tell exactly what happens.. The shooter might think they did not make a mistake but usally did... Most eveyone can tell a wild shot that can not be figured out.... These shots useally are equipment or ammo related... I can almost always 99% of the time know what i did wrong after the shot, but then its to late! But with all the good ammo around if you have more than your share of things happening you cant explain then its proably equipment .. Do flags lie? Only if you read them wrong !! Harry...:):):)
 
Hey Harry, glad you joined in. With 99% of my shots that go out at either 4 or 10, that would seem to indicate a increase or decrease in the wind speed.

This was what made me take a hard look at how flags respond to wind.
Until building the indicator, and also a new vane set up, I always thought my flags were very responsive. Building the indicator taught me that my flags were indeed slow, but when I built the new vane it showed me just how unresponsive my flags were.

So, is it so impossible to think windflags lie? If you have a flag that shows realtime changes, and another that is anywhere from 1-3 seconds behind, do you not feel that at that moment when the flag is not responding, that it is telling a lie?

It is no wonder everyone says it's better to shoot a push, it takes the flag that long to give a half way decent reading!
Or has no one thought about that?

If you think your flag is good, build a few light ones (1/3 the weight) that are balanced and then you will see how slow your current flags are.

The new vane/shaft/tail shows many many changes that my normal flag either never see's, or takes a while to see.

And if the flag does not see it, or takes a while to see it, then at the point of firing the bullet, the flag is lying.
 
I have seen a lot of different flags some slow, some faster but the fastest indicator of wind change I have seen is the tails. Want to have some fun try some old video tape for tails.

Fred K
 
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