Cases & Overpressure

)Stephan

Member
Recently I tried some hotter loads in my Kelbly 6PPC (28.9grs N133 w/ 68grs AlpineBullets FB)
And the cases show some signs of overpressure.

This leads to my question, if the cases e.g. Won't easily fit into the shellholder anymore I believe that I can throw them away..
Also I throw them away if there are Bolt-marks on the case.

To what point would you still use these cases and how would it affect accuracy if still used..?
 
Measure your cases at the base next to the extractor groove before you shoot them the first time. If they have expanded over 0.0005" the first firing something else is wrong. Your 28.9 load of VV133 is a mild load for that powder. I know a few shooters shooting 31+ in registered matches.

On your fired cases primers should seat with about the same pressure as they did before. Using a shell holder as a pressure gage is not a valid reading on chamber pressure.


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Why will they not fit your shell holder..that seems strange.
Extractor marks on the case face is in deed a sign of pressure.
Big difference in a mark, and shearing brass.
 
Recently I tried some hotter loads in my Kelbly 6PPC (28.9grs N133 w/ 68grs AlpineBullets FB)
And the cases show some signs of overpressure.

This leads to my question, if the cases e.g. Won't easily fit into the shellholder anymore I believe that I can throw them away..
Also I throw them away if there are Bolt-marks on the case.

To what point would you still use these cases and how would it affect accuracy if still used..?

Throw them away when they won't hold a primer (over-pressure), or if they develop a grainy ring at the web/body junction (over-sizing) otherwise, WHY??

Loosening primers is the surest sign of case head expansion. It's easy, it's incontrovertible...... you can't screw it up.

You can measure caseheads with a caliper and document them through their life, frustrating since't they ain't round (a HIDEOUS waste of time, nobody's ever done it more than once)
Or you can measure casehead expansion using a mic, even more frustrating since't they ain't round (a HIDEOUS waste of time, nobody's ever done it more than once)
Or you can measure caseheads in the groove using a caliper, more rounder (a HIDEOUS waste of time, nobody's ever done it more than once)
Or you can measure "the right way" by using a blade mic in the groove (a HIDEOUS waste of time, nobody's ever done it more than once)
Or you can feel them getting tighter in the shellholder.....sometimes.....I have 17, at quick count, .473 shellholders and over a dozen PPC's and they're all different. In fact I commonly switch to a looser fit when I'm loading them cases "for the last time" (see what'cha' do if'n you're a redneck like I'm is, you wait til the primers are perty loose then you load 'em for coyote rounds to chuck into the weeds.....think "Bob-N-Roy's primer sealant"......fingernail polish....cigarette paper....superglue....switch brands....be creative) but know this, WHEN THAT PRIMER LEAKS IT'LL CUT YOUR BOLTFACE SOME....

Rich people just throw them away.

But in any case, the single accurate gauge you've got at your disposal is loosening of primer pockets. Having used an Oehler 43 setup for years and having talked with plendy guys who do this for a living at various component companies, I will state my opinion firmly regarding primer pockets. You're actually gauging casehead expansion (obviously :) ) and in my world gauging beats measuring every time.





opinions will vary







but this is mine










al


AND BTW......I mentioned the shiney ring.... in this case, if you get the ring THROW them far away after crimping the necks with pliers and then FIND THE PROBLEM. A shiny ring, which leads to casehead separation is the result of over-sizing.......... ALWAYS..... There are no other mechanical reasons for it. Over-sizing is a huge issue, a safety issue and one poorly understood in the handloading community.
 
Measure your cases at the base next to the extractor groove before you shoot them the first time. If they have expanded over 0.0005" the first firing something else is wrong.
.

I measured them now (maybe 4 firings) and they (all - also the "good" ones) seem to have expanded by 0.001" already.
Of course I started with .220 Russian cases..

Regarding the cases that won't easily fit in the shellholder, I believe they all fit in there in the beginning so I believe something is wrong..

EDIT:
I believe that shiny ring is an issue for me. I will try to get another die.
 
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I measured them now (maybe 4 firings) and they (all - also the "good" ones) seem to have expanded by 0.001" already.
Of course I started with .220 Russian cases..

Regarding the cases that won't easily fit in the shellholder, I believe they all fit in there in the beginning so I believe something is wrong..

EDIT:
I believe that shiny ring is an issue for me. I will try to get another die.

How are you sizing the new die?

How do you propose to eliminate the ring?
 
ok...THAT IS A LOT OF EXPANSION..
I have not been there yet.
Why will they not fit your shell holder..that seems strange.
Extractor marks on the case face is in deed a sign of pressure.
Big difference in a mark, and shearing brass.
 
Measure your cases at the base next to the extractor groove before you shoot them the first time. If they have expanded over 0.0005" the first firing something else is wrong. Your 28.9 load of VV133 is a mild load for that powder. I know a few shooters shooting 31+ in registered matches.

On your fired cases primers should seat with about the same pressure as they did before. Using a shell holder as a pressure gage is not a valid reading on chamber pressure.


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Jerry - Not to be confrontational, but 28.9/29 grs. of 133 seems to be a hot load, to me. Just for the fun of it, check the VV loading manual. I've noticed in "Precision Rifleman" that people are placing in matches loading 27 and 27.5 grs. of 133. I guess that I am in the minority, but, I just can't imagine that a person needs 31 grs. or speeds in the 3500fps. range, or more. Seems like an overkill to me. Just my opinion.

Jim - 27-T
 
Jerry - Not to be confrontational, but 28.9/29 grs. of 133 seems to be a hot load, to me. Just for the fun of it, check the VV loading manual.

I guess that I am in the minority, but, I just can't imagine that a person needs 31 grs. or speeds in the 3500fps. range, or more. Seems like an overkill to me. Just my opinion.

Jim - 27-T

Well, these hot load shooters are the ones winning!!

VV manual loads, that's for lawyers!

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The assumption that all chambers are equal is just that - an assumption. For competition Benchrest, load your cases for accuracy rather than anything else. If the load that shoots the best causes a problem that you can't live with (causes groups to be larger) then you need another barrel...or chamber. Doesn't matter at all how much powder....if you think about it. A winning rifle is a rifle that shoots well and doesn't have any problems that the competitor has to think about while shooting. "While shooting" is just that...doesn't matter at all what you have to do when reloading to make the "while shooting" go well. I suppose what I'm trying to say here is that it ain't always a "do it this way" process.
 
I fired 30 cases twice in the last days and I also did insoect the cases carefully.
The shiny ring is actually not a problem for me, I checked the new cases and also borescoped fired cases and they seem ok.

Regarding my load, I already use a drop tube and the cases are full - no chance of getting more powder in.
Maybe my bullets are a little longer.

What I noticed is that my body die does not size the cases correctly anymore so I started to use shims (~.002") and with the firing pin removed from the bolt I can adjust the cases to my liking.
Maybe this has been the problem, after the last resizing some cases seem to have springed back a little more than the others. For these cases I used an additionalshim to size the correctly.

Reloading is rocket science after all!
 
I fired 30 cases twice in the last days and I also did insoect the cases carefully.
The shiny ring is actually not a problem for me, I checked the new cases and also borescoped fired cases and they seem ok.

Regarding my load, I already use a drop tube and the cases are full - no chance of getting more powder in.
Maybe my bullets are a little longer.

What I noticed is that my body die does not size the cases correctly anymore so I started to use shims (~.002") and with the firing pin removed from the bolt I can adjust the cases to my liking.
Maybe this has been the problem, after the last resizing some cases seem to have springed back a little more than the others. For these cases I used an additionalshim to size the correctly.

Reloading is rocket science after all!

When you can fire two cases 30 times.....or 50 times......or even 100 times (the flash holes start to look funny ;) ) then you can be confident that your die is set up right.
 
How much are you bumping the shoulders?
As Jerry said, 28.9gr. of VV133 is a light load for most short range BR shooters. My medium load was 29.5. I will admit that I had a day during a match that I had that problem.

Filing rims.
nezrkx.jpg


I was very confused about this I have not ever had that problem in the previous 30years. Well!! I had the wrong shell holder. Ask Jay Lynn and Glenn, they had a lot of fun with this. There is a lot more clearance in your shell holder than a few thousandths.
 
His high pressure indicators at what most are calling "reasonable" loads,
make's me think something is not the "same" as other rifles in this class.
We need very specific data on COAL, bullet length etc.
Something ain't right.
 
His high pressure indicators at what most are calling "reasonable" loads,
make's me think something is not the "same" as other rifles in this class.
We need very specific data on COAL, bullet length etc.
Something ain't right.

I don't think those things mentioned would matter. How many people have seen rim diameter expand to not fit a shell holder?
 
SOMETHING IS AMISS...
We need more data, cause what he is doing does not match
what you guys are doing.

I don't think those things mentioned would matter. How many people have seen rim diameter expand to not fit a shell holder?
 
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