Carbon ring

L

largemouth1

Guest
HOW MANY SHOTS DOES IT TAKE TO MAKE A CARBON TYPICAL? I USE v 133
I SHOOT 6PPC .262 NECK.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
one, and it builds with each subsequent shot until the thickness is even with the inside of the case neck. further shots seem to keep it at that thickness as the bullet now goes over it. if every case is the same length after this, you'll never know the ring is there. however, in reality, a longer case is chambered and the lip is crushed into the ring and might roll crimp the neck and increase pressure and the round is , as my boyer calls it "a crazy shot". once established, this ring is VERY hard and reqquires some effort to get out. i borescope until i can see that it is gone.
 
I have never had a carbon ring with 133. It is an exceptionally clean powder. I have friends with bore scopes, and my barrels have always passed inspection with standard cleaning with Butch's Bore Shine, patches and a bronze brush. This experience takes in several barrels for my .262 neck 6PPC. I never go more than around 30 shots without cleaning.
 
I myself have seen carbon with n133. I was shocked and a little ashamed. After seeing the carbon with the scope, i quickly changed cleaning products and technique. Lee
 
LE Hanson
What i was most disappointed with was butches, and the copper that was being left in my barrel. There was also some carbon in the throat area. Not a lot, but there was some. I am not a betting man by any means, but i would have just about bet a donut for breakfast, that my cleaning procedure that i had, or was using would have been effective. I used plenty of butches and i even used brass brushes. I know use shooters choice IV, and i have no more copper issues. I know a lot of folks love Butches, and i miss the smell, but i didnt think it was all that effective. At least how i was using it. Lee
 
In the past, I poured my Butch's into various plastic bottles that were sold as suitable for solvent. It seemed to me that it changed over time when stored in these containers. In the last few years, I have been using an opaque green HDPE bottle that is military surplus. It originally contained light grease for use on light weapons. It seems to do a better job of maintaining the solvent at its original strength. I also think that not using too large of a plastic bottle is a good idea, so that it will have to be replaced from the original glass container more often. The result of this container change has been that my solvent seems to be pretty much as it came out of the glass bottle, and because of that, I believe that its performance is maintained. The only problems that I have had with cleaning have been when I forgot that virtually everything that I have shot besides 133 requires more cleaning, sometimes including light use of an abrasive. As an additional source on this Butch's. brushes, and patches working with 133 thing, I seem to remember that Jackie Schmidt (who has a bore scope) has reported the same thing. It could be that some ways of doing this work better than others.

Added later: This is the bottle. http://www.goldnuggetsurplus.com/mm...gory_Code=GA-oils-solvents&Product_Code=GA018
 
Last edited:
If you measure the max case length of your chamber and keep the gap small for your cases the less of a problem you will have. And the easier it will be to clean.
We are talking benchrest here not a hundred rounds through a varmint rifle before cleaning.
 
My observations are more in line with Skeet's than Boyd's.

A few points to consider:

Butch's BS DOES NOT remove carbon on it's own. It must be brushed out.

Butch's BS isn't even close to the fastest copper remover on the market.

In competition, there usually is not enough time between targets to get your gun completely clean, unlike the casual shooter who can let his gun soak in solvent overnight or take days to get it sparkling clean.

N133 can be cleaner, but it can also be dirty. Depends on the load and conditions. But even at it's cleanest, it still is dirtier than many of the other available powders. Take a couple virgin cases, fire a few of them a couple times with N133 and a few with XBR or H322. Then take a look at the inside of the necks. The N133 cases will be jet black no matter how much powder you put in there and the XBR/H322 cases will be light gray with a shiny sheen to them.

Carbon build up is much worse for accuracy than copper streaks.
 
Last edited:
I have, and continue to use bronze brushes as a regular part of my maintenance program. My loads are usually fairly warm to hot, and I have bore scoped the results, which I think gives the most reliable report on the inside of a barrel. If someone shoots light loads and does not brush and/or clean as often as I have, I can see where they might get different results, but I can only report what I have seen. As far as needing a stronger copper cleaner goes, I guess that I am lucky. For my stainless lapped barrels, luckily I don't. I HAVE seen Butch's loose strength sitting around in plastic bottles that may "breathe" excessively ( a guess) or react with their contents. Before I found my current solvent bottle (see earlier post) I even went so far as to work out of the glass bottle at the range. For that, I find that a very long and slim, ungraduated, disposable transfer pipette works very well for wetting patches and brushes with solvent.
 
Last edited:
Yup, plastic breathes, even water getsd thru 'em. Went fishing Sat and opened a cooler from about 8mo ago, the unopened bottle of water was fairly caved in. I keep all my solvents in brown glass bottles.
 
If you cut your case length to be significantly short of chamber length you are apt, possibly will get carbon buildup in the gap. I cut mine 3 to 5 thou short and don't have a problem. I used to clean after every relay. I stopped doing that 2 years ago and shoot a full agg then clean. Have done it enough to know that in my particular barrel at least it makes no difference in accuracy. Mine is a .30 BR score rifle. One of these days I am going to screw on my PPC barrel and try the same to see how the smaller caliber responds to once an agg cleaning. Anyone shooting a PPC regularly tried this?

Greg
 
glp- YUP, I shoot 2-guns at score matches, a ppc in LV, and a 30 BR in HV. Both can go the distance without accuracy loss for the entire match using WS2.
 
glp said:
Anyone shooting a PPC regularly tried this?

Greg
Click to expand...

Yes. But I think it depends on the barrel itself. I've had barrels that would let me go an entire Unlimited agg (10 shots plus sighters and foulers) without cleaning with no noticeable loss in accuracy. But then I've had barrels that would "pattern" like a shotgun if they weren't cleaned every 20 shots.
 
the only tool that is made for doing this is offered by Sinclair. I would not use it. As it happens, I have a rifle that has evidence of the misuse of one. Putting a piece of mild steel into a shortened case and closing the bolt does not, to me, seem to be a good idea... brass perhaps, but not steel. In the case of my rifle, the case was not shortened enough, and the bolt must have been forced closed.
 
Boyd Allen said:
the only tool that is made for doing this is offered by Sinclair. I would not use it. As it happens, I have a rifle that has evidence of the misuse of one. Putting a piece of mild steel into a shortened case and closing the bolt does not, to me, seem to be a good idea... brass perhaps, but not steel. In the case of my rifle, the case was not shortened enough, and the bolt must have been forced closed.
Click to expand...

Boyd is spot on, I used a tool like the one that Boyd mentioned in my SS, 30BR chamber and kicked up a burr at the end of the neck area. Don't use steel to make this type of tool, use brass.

Dick
 
Would a chamber casting work?

mshelton said:
I gotcha, shouldn't be to hard of a tool to make out of brass.
Click to expand...



I've used a chamber casting to get a pretty accurate chamber length measurement in the past. I used a product called cerrosafe. Brownells or one of the other gun supply stores sells it. Just remove the barrel from the action. Plug the bore, at the chamber end, where the rifling begins and follow the instructions. When the cerrosafe sets up,push the casting out with a cleaning rod. Been a long time since I've done one,but it worked for me.



Glenn
 
Boyd Allen said:
the only tool that is made for doing this is offered by Sinclair. I would not use it. As it happens, I have a rifle that has evidence of the misuse of one. Putting a piece of mild steel into a shortened case and closing the bolt does not, to me, seem to be a good idea... brass perhaps, but not steel. In the case of my rifle, the case was not shortened enough, and the bolt must have been forced closed.
Click to expand...

Boyd, it's not mild steel. It's leaded steel and very soft. I had one actually dent inside my tackle box. I've used them for every gun I own with no ill effects as yet. Sinclair guarantees they will not damage your chamber.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top