Butch Lambert
Active member
Jackie, have you seen the video of Nez hitting the steel at 1000 yards with iron sights on his M14? You need to see it. Ain't no snyppers hyde.
Carbon Fiber barrels controversy
- Thread starter jbhotrod
- Start date
Jackie, have you seen the video of Nez hitting the steel at 1000 yards with iron sights on his M14? You need to see it. Ain't no snyppers hyde.
I dunno though........these guys on the innernet and in the movies can do some freaky stuff. I saw this one guy just snap his fingers and disappear!! He went invisible I guess!
Maybe they're just BETTER than us....he did SAY something about the gun just running 1.5" at 500yds all day long.....Me, from a bench, I got 1 group that small at 600 (out of a whole BUNCH of groups LOL
)Maybe if I shot just that ONE group every time.......hmmmmm
BTW Butch, speaking of long rangers, check out them Gallagher girls too. I wouldn't wanna be at 1000 yds and one a' them standing there with a musket!
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
You're using too much gun : http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/08/05/jerry-miculeks-1000-yard-shot-what/
: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/08/05/jerry-miculeks-1000-yard-shot-what/Contrary to popular opinion CF is just about the exact opposite of most I've read here. It is highly resistant to effects from heat. It can withstand temperatures over 2500 degrees, does not warp. and absorbs and dissipates heat much faster than steel. It's use in brake systems and clutches has been well vetted.
It's benefit to rifle barrels is debatable, unless someone figures out how to make a complete barrel from it.
BTW, the M60 has stellite lined barrels and is not that hard to burn one up,
It's benefit to rifle barrels is debatable, unless someone figures out how to make a complete barrel from it.
BTW, the M60 has stellite lined barrels and is not that hard to burn one up,
What you say is true about carbon ceramic brake discs, which have about as much to do with carbon wrapped gun barrels as does a big Tiffany diamond ring. Yes, carbon is involved in all three, but they are not all the same...... not by a long shot.
Carbon fiber is attractive because it has a VERY high modulus meaning when you pull it it doesn't stretch very much. That means, assuming you apply it in exactly the correct way, it can be made into components which are quite stiff. Since it's also pretty light and pretty strong, these components can also be light and strong. But they're not automatically light and strong. You gotta' design and fabricate the component with great care to realize the advantages of carbon fibers.
Carbon brake discs are made by molding chopped carbon fibers with a plastic resin which is later cooked at high temperature turning the binder into carbon too. Then Silicon is added to the mold and the component is heated to an even higher temperature to produce Silicon Carbide. After machining the discs are really not much like the original two components other than the chopped carbon fiber strands are still in there to provide strength.
Carbon wrapped gun barrels, on the other hand, are usually made by wrapping carbon fibers, either as linear strands or woven cloth, around a steel liner. The carbon fibers are encapsulated in some sort of resin either as it's being wound or perhaps pre-impregnated. Later that resin is cured by heating, but at much lower temperatures that that used to make carbon ceramic brake discs. The finished product is similar to your ordinary fiberglass boat except that the fibers and resins are higher strength. However, the basic idea is similar. Both use a strong fiber bound in a resin matrix which can be easily formed and then later cured to make a stable finished product.
Keep in mind that carbon fiber is highly anisotropic, meaning it's properties vary, often significantly, depending on the exact orientation of the fibers. In addition, the resin has a great deal to do with the properties of the finished product including thermal conductivity and these properties can be adjusted to suit the requirements of of the finished product.
It is possible to make a carbon fiber wrapped barrel which is lighter than a heavy steel barrel while also being equal in stiffness. However, some tests show that heavy steel barrels show less POI shift as they heat up compared with carbon barrels. It has also been shown that it's easier to aim with a heavy barrel than with a light one, so all is not sweetness and light. Are you gonna' carry the barrel as you're chasing bad-guys (or Gods little furry creatures) around or rest it on a bench and shoot it for score?
The jury is still out when it comes to carbon barrels. They may be the wave of the future, but it is unlikely they will be cost competitive with steel barrels anytime soon. Me? I'm sticking with steel.
Butch Lambert
Active member
I dunno though........these guys on the innernet and in the movies can do some freaky stuff. I saw this one guy just snap his fingers and disappear!! He went invisible I guess!
Maybe they're just BETTER than us....he did SAY something about the gun just running 1.5" at 500yds all day long.....Me, from a bench, I got 1 group that small at 600 (out of a whole BUNCH of groups LOL
Maybe if I shot just that ONE group every time.......hmmmmm
BTW Butch, speaking of long rangers, check out them Gallagher girls too. I wouldn't wanna be at 1000 yds and one a' them standing there with a musket!
I should have my brass no later than Mon. or Tues. Those girls are top notch shooters!
I have a good friend that has been shooting carbon fiber barrels for a couple of years in the long range prone game. In fact, he is sponsored by Proof Research. We shoot 20 round matches plus sighters in a time limit of 30 minutes. I can say that his barrels are definately cooler than my stainless barrels after a string of fire, significantly cooler. We have been monitoring the throat wear via borescope and the throats are not wearing any faster than my stainless barrels. While I realize that long range prone is not benchrest as far as accuracy goes, he did win the Wimbledon Cup at Camp Perry this year. Will I ever convert to CF, I doubt it. I don't think there is any accuracy advantage there nor enough additional longevity to warrant the additional cost. I think CF's place is in hunting rifles where the rifle has to be carried all day and sometimes for long distances. He is shooting .308 and .284 Shehane.
C
CMaier
Guest
i suspect you do not KNOW how cool his bbl is.
you feel the outer composite that is an insulator, bbl temp is entirely different.
20 plus in 30 min is not "fast" at all.
mil targets are 1 moa x ring and 2 moa 10 ring, not even close to long or short range br.
he is obviously a good shooter, but it is 2 very different games.
you feel the outer composite that is an insulator, bbl temp is entirely different.
20 plus in 30 min is not "fast" at all.
mil targets are 1 moa x ring and 2 moa 10 ring, not even close to long or short range br.
he is obviously a good shooter, but it is 2 very different games.
Greg Langelius
New member
Some years back, I had opportunity to communicate with Woody Woodall regarding a highly thermal conductive barrel.
He had been reviewing some older research data from L-W, and was thinking along similar lines.
Some time later, the result was this; and it's rather different from a carbon fiber wrap. It's not cheap. Reports from testing indicated that the barrel was very hard to detect a thermal signature from.
Sorry to hear the disappointment with SH here. My experience, (since its beginning) garners my respect rather a bit more than with some here. To each, their own...
Greg Langelius
He had been reviewing some older research data from L-W, and was thinking along similar lines.
Some time later, the result was this; and it's rather different from a carbon fiber wrap. It's not cheap. Reports from testing indicated that the barrel was very hard to detect a thermal signature from.
Sorry to hear the disappointment with SH here. My experience, (since its beginning) garners my respect rather a bit more than with some here. To each, their own...
Greg Langelius
adamsgt
Jerry Adams
At my Friday meeting/lunch with fellow shooters, one of our members brought the rifle he is currently using in Service Rifle matches. It is a AR-15 that weighs 16 lbs. He has lead weights in the buttstock and around the barrel in the handguard. It is well balanced but you need to be prepared for the weight when you handle it for the first time. He says that it is the only way to shoot offhand. I believe him because he's placed well at Camp Perry and has trophies to prove it.
Butch Lambert
Active member
Butch Lambert
Active member
Wilbur, to help you, I will leave it alone.
LOL leave it lay Butch!
I just had a post deleted for being more charitable than you'll be to poor Woody
PLEASE,PLEASE do this with out speaking any more and post the video !!!!!
Carbon fiber CAN be made to create very good heat conduction along the LENGTH of the fiber.
Since carbon has a smaller mass and density than metal it is rarely as good a heat conductor as metal.
The material used to bond the fibers into a useful assembly (epoxy in a number of flavors) is NOT a good heat conductor.
Since the fibers run the LENGTH of hte barrel and the heat is generated inside the assembly it will NOT be an effective heat sink or radiator.
Since carbon has a smaller mass and density than metal it is rarely as good a heat conductor as metal.
The material used to bond the fibers into a useful assembly (epoxy in a number of flavors) is NOT a good heat conductor.
Since the fibers run the LENGTH of hte barrel and the heat is generated inside the assembly it will NOT be an effective heat sink or radiator.
pikespeakgoat
NRA4Life
Seems like someone could take two like barrels, one regular and the other CF, shoot exactly the same cartridge, same load, same bullet, same rate of fire and measure resultant temps inside the barrels.
Would this not solve the heat dissipation and cooler claims, one way or the other?
Would this not solve the heat dissipation and cooler claims, one way or the other?