Bullet making pics.

CYanchycki said:
.......how does one come to determine or know when you achieved a good core seating pressure? Calvin
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That's one of the hardest aspects of bullet making to explain. I will say this:

Core seating pressure is the single most important thing you do when making bullets.

Different core material makeups (the % of antimony) may 'pressure up' differently when the cores are seated. Different lots of jackets may respond differently to the same amount of physical core shortening during seating. Not all the core material is as homogeneous as we expect it to be...there can be areas in the wire that are 'softer' or 'harder'. And the list goes on.

A small die like the Blackmon will actually flex a bit..it's possible during core seating to actually make the o.d. of the jacket larger than the i.d. of the die, given enough seating pressure. A big-bodied carbide die like the great one George Ulrich or Neimi Engineering make are not going to act the same way, for example.

At the very minimum, you need to seat the core with enough pressure so the jacket o.d. measure at least what the i.d of the die measures.
 
Been busy with basketball games, on-call duty at work and family stuff...wasn't intentionally leaving anyone hanging.

But like John Wayne would say: "Let's get to the rat killin' ". :)

Here's an exploded view of the point die setup:
Punch holder with shims and internal punch, cored jacket, point die, ejector, ejector pin for the press. The press ejector fits into the slot in the ejector pin. The ejector pin remains stationary in the rams i.d. and the die moves over it. The shims are again used for final tweaking.

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The jackets are relubed. I leave the lube from the core seating operation. A cored jacket is held against the base of the internal punch and the die advanced over the cored jacket by moving the press handle down. The punch holder is adjusted by moving the lock ring until the jacket goes far enough into the die so the metplat is fully formed and is small enough for the ejector pin to bear against so it can be ejected.

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Now you've got a bullet. :cool: Make a few, then verify the bullet shank o.d. and the pressure ring o.d., plus measure the distance from the base to the ogive. The shank/pressure ring dimensions can be influenced by the amount and type of lube used. I have my own thoughts on base-to-ogive dimensions...but what I do may not be what others do in this area. Make sure the bullets measure consistently in your small sample before going any further. The most common cause of dimensional wandering is usually too much lube, in my experience.

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Make up 40-50 bullets, then head out to the range and test 'em with a known good tuneup in your gun and in decent conditions.

074.jpg


Repeat 1,000 times.

1kB1s.jpg
 
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matt_gu3 said:
Great thread Al,
the question that begs to be asked is, what does it cost to get started making your own bullets and how many need to be made before you really start seeing the savings over buying them from "X" maker. Matt Guthrie
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Hi, Matt. 'Ya know...that's a hard deal. Honestly, I didn't get into making my own bullets for any type of cost saving. I was intriqued by the whole process, had seen R.G. making bullets at his place and basically just wanted to see if I could make a good bullet. I knew from talking with Randy that Larry's dies made excellent bullets and he was kind enough to offer to mentor me through the process. One of R.G.'s gifts to me when I started was a bucket of 1.00" J4's to get me started and some of his lube, which I still use to this day. Heck, with that kind of support, how could I say no? ;) R.G. continues be be a fantastic source of info and we kick ideas back and forth on a regular basis. I continue to be thankful for all he's done for me...and in case I haven't said so publicly before:

Thank you, Randy Robinett! :cool:

As far as 'saving' money, at some point you do realize and save on a per-bullet basis. But the other side of the coin (pun intended) is that you generally have more up front costs when rollin' your own. The intial cost of the dies and other equipment is pretty easily amortized over time, but buying 6,000-8,000 jackets at a crack and several spools of core wire could be a bit burdensome, depending on a person's situation.

I know that if I ever tire of making bullets, I'd happily go back to shooting BIB's and pass over the money gladly.

Stay warm, buddy. -Al
 
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Thank you Al !

This brings back some great memories of sitting in Al Mirdochs shop watching the bullets being made and long talks with a good friend .

Merry Christmas everyone.

Glenn:D
 
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Al,
Thanks for taking the time to explain the way you make bullets. I have just started making my own recently, and to this point, everything seems to be working well for me. I can core seat and do the point up 1000 times with little problem. To this day I haven't figured out how to repeat the .074" group 1000 times, but I'm not giving up on it.

Michael
 
Thanx Al,
I like the thought of making my own but it sure sounds like a huge commitment of funds.
I sure am glad there are guys out there that offer such good bullets to BR shooters.

Matt Guthrie
 
I just ordered my die set from blackmon. I didn't even ask what the current lead time was when I ordered them. If I get them in a year I'll be happy as I know he's real busy right now.
 
Matt, I do not make bullets at this time but occasionally I think about it. After seeing this thread I am beginning to feel more like I would like to make my own. Living outside of the US it is definately HARDER to get the bullets. I shoot Opel bullets made hear in Canada but he is one maker. How long can and willing is he to go on????? I hope a LONG time. For me I am not sure if it is the big commitment of funds to get started but I would not let that scare me away. One may not get going in one year but could buy the tools as the money allows. I would shop around for 3 used RC presses or any other heavy duty presses. The dies would be the biggest expense. I am not even sure what they run cost wise and who all makes dies?

The bottom line is I basically hibernate from the time it gets cold out and snows till it starts to warm up out there and melt. It would be a good way to pass some time. It would even feel that much better if you can produce a winning bullet for yourself like Al has for himself.

Thanks again for your time Al. This was an enjoyable read.

Calvin
 
Matt, I should rephase what I said about cost....the up front component costs can be trimmed significantly from my example.

J4 will sell a single bucket of jackets. And a single roll of core wire from Crown Metals isn't much more than you'd spend taking the wife or girlfriend out for a nice dinner, a movie and a couple of drinks. If a guy approaches it from that angle, it's more realistic from a cost standpoint. And if you make some bullets for a pal or two, you get to the break even point pretty fast.

Randy told me one thing that's always stuck in my mind:

The problem with making good bullets is that people want to buy 'em from 'ya. :eek:
 
Part Two

Seems like we're off to a decent start. My hope is that this will continue as others add their thoughts and expertise. There's a fair amount of people out there that roll their own.

The floor is yours......:) -Al

P.S. If anyone needs help posting pics, I'd be happy to assist.
 
Okay so I decide I want to start rolling my own 6mm bullets on 790 jackets for my own use. Knowing there are numerous die makers out there what would work for me? Recommendations?

Calvin
 
Making cores

There are a couple of positives to making your own cores.

Jacket weights can and do vary from run to run. In the three years I've been making bullets on the 1.00" J4 jackets, the weights have run from a low 39.7 to a high of 41.3. Using cores with a 'fixed' weight, the finished bullet would have varied 1.6 gr., depending on the jacket weight. Smart money would be to have Charlie make the cores either based on the average jacket weight (if you've used enough different lots of jackets to find an 'average') or determine the high and low weights of the jackets and have the cores made to plop squarely in the middle of the variance.

Another reason is if you like to experiment with the percentage of antimony in the cores. I like a higher percentage in my cores than most use. That goes hand in hand with my thoughts on core seating pressures in these .30's. A higher antimony percentage also keeps the lead build up at the edge of the core seating punch to a minimum.

My core squirt die makes a .252 diameter core, which plunks nicely down into any of the jackets weights. The Hood cores I've used were more like .257 and needed a bit of light encouragement to get to the bottom of some of the heavier jacket weights. I always worry about air getting trapped between the bottom of the core and the base of the jacket internally....though that's probably just some of my preconcieved notions of "what if's?". :rolleyes:

All that said, I've used Charlie's .05 % antimony 77.3 gr. cores in the 39.7 gr. jackets and they just shoot great. I had a pretty abbreviated season this year, but did manage a 100 yd. Agg. win at the IBS Score Nationals with this combo, followed up a couple of weeks later with a 100-200 yd.Two Gun Score win at Webster City, Iowa with the same core/jacket combos.

Reality sometimes makes us rethink what we 'know' as 'fact'......:eek:
 
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CYanchycki said:
Okay so I decide I want to start rolling my own 6mm bullets on 790 jackets for my own use. Knowing there are numerous die makers out there what would work for me? Recommendations?

Calvin
Click to expand...

For new dies, I would recommend George Ulrich's as the most cost effecrtive carbide dies.


Bill
 
A dumb question:

I have wondered if the meplat is scrunched in or drawn up to it's cone? Sorry, I realize this is a dumb question but I'm old :)
 
Pete Wass said:
I have wondered if the meplat is scrunched in or drawn up to it's cone? Sorry, I realize this is a dumb question but I'm old :)
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Pete, the meplat is formed during the point up operation i guess you could call it scrunched in,actually it is a by product of the ejection pin dia. i'm talking about open tip bullets soft points are a wholr different deal.bullet is pressedin forming tip and meplat is formed to a dia. that is small enough for the ejection pin to push bullet back out. george
 
Great Thread, thanks to all that take there time to document and post pictures, very helpful. Just a Couple from my setup, have a LONG ways to go but with the Help of Al Nyhus and others the learning curve time is decreasing.
bulletbench.jpg


Will have to change this spool setup for sure, this is temporary.
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Mounted core cutter @ end of bench with c clamp, wasn't sure that's where it would stay.
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I just hang a jacket bucket under the core cutter
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I followed Al's advice and built a jacket holder.
Seated cores
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More to come as I build a more permanent set-up.
 
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