Action choices for hunter benchrest

Score shooting

Sorry fellas, I meant shooting benchrest for score. Im very fortunate in that my wife likes this too, and the fact that i can purchase the action of my choosing. myself and a few friends used to shoot score informally a few years back , it was great fun and im thinking about purchasing a used rifle in 30br to start with because I know that by the time I get it back the season would be half over. Everyone says Bob White is a class act. Thanks, John
 
For the past 2 years a SG&Y built 30x47 on a Stolle Kodiak action has won 1st place every year at our local club. Before that a SG&Y Accurized Remington 30x47 was the winner.But shooting the two side by side the Kodiak simply out shoots the Remy in both Hunter and Varment class. This year a Stiller Rattler is in the lead for varment and I feel the 30x47 Kodiak will be the leader in Hunter. But its still to early to tell. Keep in mind this NBRSA.
Floyd
 
My perspective---

David Halblom said:
And LH, I would bet you might find it interesting and maybe even a bit more competitive if you would step up to a custom action. Come on out of the Dark Ages and play w/ the rest of the Benchrest Community.
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I HAVE a Bat 6 PPC LV (competed with in VFS since '03) and a Bat 30BR HV being built . When I started in '03 the PPC ruled for ,what, 25 yrs? Suddenly in '05 you needed a 30 BR.

Had to shoot last season with son's Brackney trued Rem. PPC in Var.Htr.
(LV was at smith's )

I had much more enjoyment shooting Var. Htr than VFS--even though # of competitors in that class is a fraction of VFS (here in PA).

Since making the commitment to build the 30 BR HV gun (and I am cash constrained) several developments have surfaced:
* tuners are now legal in IBS ( IBS is predominate here in PA)
* introduction of March scopes and condemnation of all other scopes
*Catamaran stocks, barrel blocks, off- set stocks,-----etc.

A person of modest means simply cannot afford to keep up equipment wise to be truly competitive---especially with the skyrocketing costs of components and gas. And unless you do your own machining , you'll always be month's behind the latest curve.

I was introduced into the sport by one of the early (early '80's) "top guns" of score shooting, and from what I can deduct from conversations with many "old timers", the sport is not the "Fun" it once was,and in my 5 years of competing, my experience parallels their thoughts. Summation--- it was not about who had the best equipment, but rather who had the best shooting skill

This is why I love to see Gary Long or Vince Pastorella (or any competitor using non-custom actions) win or place in registered matches. Why do you think it's called "HUNTER" and "VARMINT HUNTER"

We are all thrown into the "rat race" (as my parents called this progress thing) in our every day work environment---I don't want to carry this mindset into what I enjoy most---competitive shooting. Some of you may think I don't share your zeal for pure competitiveness, but I assure you my GOAL is to KICK your BUTT and, if I just happen to succeed with my Remington var. htr.,my reward will be that much sweeter ---Not to mention how MAD some may get.
 
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I think at most - -

There is a $500. difference between a trued up Remington and a custom action; this is all we are talking here.

Regarding the expense of this sport; go price a 250cc Moto Cross bike sometime and price out how much it will cost to compete with it for a season @ local races. We are not involved in an expensive sport.
 
apples vs. oranges

Just so the new guy understands the $$$ it will take to bring home wood.

I don't think the founders of the sport intended for it to be this way ----where are all the new members to perpetuate this game?
 
I) C) To assist and encourage any individual or organization in the promotion of Benchrest shooting

It is very hard to "Encourage" someone when there are faced with an $8,000- $10,000 investment for a one-gun set-up just to get in the "mentioned" list in Precision Shooting match reports---not to mention the gunsmith lead time---
--once you get it from the smith it's probably behind the curve.[/QUOTE]

and assuming that it is going to cost you that much to start out, or fostering the belief that it is going to cost that much is one of the great impediments that I find being foisted on unsuspecting new shooters. As Pete said, there is a $500 difference between a "souped up" rem and a custom built rifle. That is the ONLY difference in the cost. Anything else you are going to need, you will have to buy NO MATTER what kind of rifle you are shooting.

And as far as a Rem shooting as well, yes, you are correct. UNTIL>>>>you get to that condition where you are going to have to run and gun in the last 30 seconds. The Rem will eat you up EVERY time. Not as smooth, not as stable, not as capable in those circumstances.

And if you are assuming your "race-bred" Remington HBR rifle has anything to do with the 30-06 in your closet, you are deluding yourself. We are shooting BENCHREST, not deer or rabbits, or gophers.
 
I think our intent

is to point out that a custom action'd rifle will always be more valuable and easier to sell at a better price than a Rem. for one thing and the natural progression for almost everyone is to go to custom actions not long after they are bitten by the benchrest Bug.

There are no new shooters for lots of reasons. The state I live in is selling far less hunting licenses and going down every year. Society doesn't have the same love afair with guns and shooting that it use to.

Parents buy Mini Vans to drag their kids all over for every sport one can think of and spend whatever is necessary to do it. When I was young, parents were not involved nearly to that degree with their kids sports. We didn't play sports 24-7-365. A lot has changed in our lifetime and I think many of us; myself included, don't often think of the sociatal changes. Our societ has also changed to where more and more people are socially liberal and we all know how liberals feel about guns, don't we? They too don't look at history and the result of the changes like those the "Civilized" countries have experienced since taking guns away form honest citizens.

It is for all those reasons I believe that cost isn't an issue. People will afford what they want, somehow. From what I know of the sports people drag their kids to today, everyone plays , no matter how good or bad they are and they strive to deminish competition. They stress playing. I think that is why less and less people relish competition. But the cost of any of it isn't an issue.

PS. You need to take a closer look at some fo those rifles you mentioned sometime.
 
LHSmith said:
Just so the new guy understands the $$$ it will take to bring home wood.
I don't think the founders of the sport intended for it to be this way ----where are all the new members to perpetuate this game?
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This (highlighted, above), simply, is not correct - it may be a common perception, which becomes individual reality . . . but it IS incorrect. I garnered MOST of my [meaningless here] NBRSA HBR HoF points shooting trusty old Rem. 700s - I won plenty of wood using them, regularly outperforming people using custom actioned rigs! Applying this logic, one would deduce that I would have done better shooting custom actioned rifles - I would have become a Hunter Class GOD - but, we all know THAT is also incorrcet. :eek: :eek:

I only went custom when I saw that, at the rather well attended 2000 NBRSA Hunter Nationals, the only people shooting Rem. actions were a few "old" guys, who were clinging to the notion that we were "scaring" new people away - virtually ALL of the "beginners" were toting custom actioned rigs!:eek: Once it became obvious that I was clinging to the past, I acquired custom actioned rigs . . . and haven't fared much better than with the old Remingtons. I 'll repeat: equipment does not win - that comes from between the ears and learning how to "close the deal".

Consider for a moment the individual known as Frank McKee :)eek:) - if HE decided to take up custom actions and leave his beloved 788s home, would the remainder of us would need to take up basket weaving? That may be an unfair question - Frank already IS a Hunter Class GOD! Occasionally, He shoots a Panda - just to prove that, for some people, customs actions are OK. :eek: RG
 
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I was stating why I enjoy Var. Htr more than VFS. I agree rem is not competitive in the VFS game ( and maybe not at the national hunter levels) A VFS set-up will be considerably more expensive, and I stand by my costs stated to be "in the game" (in VFS).

My argument has more to do with what the game has turned into and in these times it precludes most from participating.
 
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Mr. Robinette--

I believe Frank McKee has been using customs for some time now--at least the match reports indicate this.

I respect your response as your name is synonymous with the Hunter Class game.
 
To all shooters interested in taking a look at getting into Benchrest, the above "glass half empty" comments are one individuals view and I will venture to say not shared by a lot of current active shooters.

1. It does not take $8,000 - 10,000 to get a competitve rifle
2. If a gunsmith takes 15 months, you need a new gunsmith
3. The actual technology being used on the line is not changing so fast that you will be "behind the curve" in a months time
4. Shooting ability still trumps equipment, the very best and newest scope, stock, barrel etc. will not guarantee you mention in NBRSA news. It takes skill, dedication, and practice to get there consistently, surprise just like any other sport. The best shooters could probably take your gun and still beat you but they did not get that way because of their equipment.

Pete said it correctly, people will pay for what they want to do, if its a $30,000 bass boat to go catch a fish they are going to throw back in the water or a $2,000 scope to maybe take out another variable, its all what important to you. The constant harping on individual percieved negatives does a real disservice to a great sport.
 
gacamp said:
To all shooters interested in taking a look at getting into Benchrest, the above "glass half empty" comments are one individuals view and I will venture to say not shared by a lot of current active shooters.

1. It does not take $8,000 - 10,000 to get a competitve rifle
2. If a gunsmith takes 15 months, you need a new gunsmith
3. The actual technology being used on the line is not changing so fast that you will be "behind the curve" in a months time
4. Shooting ability still trumps equipment, the very best and newest scope, stock, barrel etc. will not guarantee you mention in NBRSA news. It takes skill, dedication, and practice to get there consistently, surprise just like any other sport. The best shooters could probably take your gun and still beat you but they did not get that way because of their equipment.

Pete said it correctly, people will pay for what they want to do, if its a $30,000 bass boat to go catch a fish they are going to throw back in the water or a $2,000 scope to maybe take out another variable, its all what important to you. The constant harping on individual percieved negatives does a real disservice to a great sport.
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1./"one-gun set-up" referring to $$$ to amass ALL the equip't needed to compete well enough to win wood in a tournament( Rifle w/extra bbl /matching dies--$3500, March scope--$2500, co-ax rest/bags-$1000,.........you add up the rest)
2/ Perhaps, what is normal turn-around time?
3/ Read more carefully:....."you'll alway's be month's behind the curve"------ month's as in several ---NOT "a" month
4// No argument --other than let's check this coming years nationals and various states score tournaments and see whats winning and the $$$$ they have invested
 
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LH, I have to

thank you. I have never been referred to as a member of a cligue in my 56 years. Most people call me out for being "different thinking", "tangential", argumentative, but NEVER Cliquish.

What I must emphasize for all who read this is that dispite the ass-u-m(e)-tion that Hunter Benchrest is about using hunting rifles to shoot Benchrest, that could not be further from the truth. HBR or Hunter or 6X score (hunter and V-htr) are about using a VERY defined class of rifle to shoot the score game. Nothing more, nothing less. bigger than .22 caliber, 2.25" forend, 6X scope, 10# max weight. And DON'T EVER think that a so-so rifle will EVER be competitive in that arena. As R.G. or I or Clark Green or Randy Perkowski, or Roland Potter , or Frank McKee will attest to, if the rifle will not agg under.250", find another one or be satisfied to be in the lower 1/2.....always.

LH, don't ass-u-me that because you have not heard or read a lot o this board from me that I am one of the "keyboard" shooters. My credentials are not yours to decide on. I am VERY comfortable in my skin, thank you.
 
LHSmith said:
1./"one-gun set-up" referring to $$$ to amass ALL the equip't needed to compete well enough to win wood in a tournament( Rifle w/extra bbl /matching dies--$3500, March scope--$2500, co-ax rest/bags-$1000,.........you add up the rest)
2/ Perhaps, what is normal turn-around time?
3/ Read more carefully:....."you'll alway's be month's behind the curve"------ month's as in several ---NOT "a" month
4// No argument --other than let's check this coming years nationals and various states score tournaments and see whats winning and the $$$$ they have invested
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What makes you think you need a March to be competitive? Or a $3500 rifle? Until last year, March was almost unheard of, Leupold won most of the matches. Any scope with good optics that holds POA can win any match. The guys that are winning with March scopes were winning with Leupolds before March came on the scene. One of the guys I shoot with kicked some serious butt last year with a USED rifle he picked up for a good price. I shot next to Lester Bruno at the NBRSA nationals last fall for four days. Not once in those four days did a $1000 rest grace his bench, he uses an old Hart style rest. How many HOF points does Lester have?? If you don't want to shoot, then don't. But don't come on here claiming that one can't be competitive without the latest gizmo, it's simply false.
 
Hal, you are

Hal D. said:
What makes you think you need a March to be competitive? Or a $3500 rifle? Until last year, March was almost unheard of, Leupold won most of the matches. Any scope with good optics that holds POA can win any match. The guys that are winning with March scopes were winning with Leupolds before March came on the scene. One of the guys I shoot with kicked some serious butt last year with a USED rifle he picked up for a good price. I shot next to Lester Bruno at the NBRSA nationals last fall for four days. Not once in those four days did a $1000 rest grace his bench, he uses an old Hart style rest. How many HOF points does Lester have?? If you don't want to shoot, then don't. But don't come on here claiming that one can't be competitive without the latest gizmo, it's simply false.
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a man after my own heart. you have gotten to the root of the issue. Don't lose that skepticism.!

David
 
Fact or fiction?

What makes me think that I need a new March to be competitive?

Well,that's what I've been led to believe by some of the most renown competitors for the last several months. Ain't it true?
 
george in KY said:
i'll be shooting a trued by mike bryant 40X action Rockcreek barrel by stogsdill 40x rangemaster stock with a 3inch plate.36X leupold scope......i'll shoot it all year for good or bad..well not to bad :)......oh ya cowen rest protektor rear bag....gun/rest/scope .....$2300 TOTAL COST :cool:
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Now thats what I'm talking about! You the MAN GEORGE!
 
I guess I would ask...

LHSmith said:
What makes me think that I need a new March to be competitive?

Well,that's what I've been led to believe by some of the most renown competitors for the last several months. Ain't it true?
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Why the hell would you need a "renowned" shooter to tell you what is a "must" to win a match? Are you not confident enough in your own abilities to go practice and figure out what it takes to win? Just because tony uses Brylcream, does that mean you must. Come on,.....do a little research yourself and figure out what it takes.
 
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