A NEW tuner question

Pete Wass

Pete Wass

Well-known member
I found a tiny zero tune for one of my rifles last fall. Say I want to screw the tuner on it I have for it, how should I proceed? Screw the tuner back to the beginning of the threads on the barrel? Screw it on to the middle of the threads or out closer to the muzzle? Should I crank it until I duplicate the tiny zero group I found before I mounted the tuner or should I continue to use the rifle without the tuner?

I have been messing with tuners for a long time but never became satisfied with them on CF rifles, ergo the threaded barrels sans the tuner.

Thanks,

Pete
 
Pete Wass said:
I found a tiny zero tune for one of my rifles last fall. Say I want to screw the tuner on it I have for it, how should I proceed? Screw the tuner back to the beginning of the threads on the barrel? Screw it on to the middle of the threads or out closer to the muzzle? Should I crank it until I duplicate the tiny zero group I found before I mounted the tuner or should I continue to use the rifle without the tuner?

I have been messing with tuners for a long time but never became satisfied with them on CF rifles, ergo the threaded barrels sans the tuner.

Thanks,

Pete
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Pete, please e-mail me and I'll help you. We've made a lot of progress with tuners in recent times. :)

Gene Beggs genebeggs@cableone.net
 
Thanks Gene

I have sent you several emails over the past few months and have not heard from you nor have they been bounced back. I will try again.

Thanks,

Pete
 
Pete Wass said:
Have you checked your Spam filter for my emails?

Thanks,

Pete
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Yes. Nothing there. I just sent a test e-mail to your alternate address.

Pete, we may just as well carry on our tuner discussion here on the forum as I'm sure others would like to hear about it.
We've made a lot of progress in recent times thanks to Mike Ezell and Richard Brensing.

Later

Gene Beggs
 
I'm going to throw

something out there for you guys to chew on. Are you going to use the tuner as a dampener or use it for a true tuner.
There is a alot of difference between the two.

Richard

Gene, your right. Tuners have evolved so much in the last few years.
 
Richard said:
something out there for you guys to chew on. Are you going to use the tuner as a dampener or use it for a true tuner.
There is a alot of difference between the two.

Richard

Gene, your right. Tuners have evolved so much in the last few years.
Click to expand...

Richard is correct. If a barrel is already close to its best it doesn't take much to bring it in. If a barrel is way off its natural tune sometimes it may take 10 ounces or more. This brings in the problem for making weight in LV.

A HUMMER barrel is simply a barrel that is in its optimum tune. 95% of barrels we are offered today are capable of shooting winning numbers but many are just not cut to their best tune.

Many/most tuners today are simply used to fine-tune the given load.


.
 
I'm going to throw

something else out there that I have seen time and time again. If you are running a ahead of the crown tuner, tuner runout is a big issue with POI changes when turning the tuner. Most of you know I go preloaded and do everything with the tuner. There are days (actually alot of them) where "just turn the thing a half number" just isn't going to do the job. It's not ususual to have to go .005 to get the tune I want. I might do this in the middle of a group and not even go to the sighter. You can't do that if your tuner changes POI with rotation.
I have taken a well known tuner and with a bbl in the lathe checked the runout. It was .001 TIR which is really good.
This tuner will change POI .250 with .015 movement. I have modified the tuner so it will be behind the crown. Checked the runout again and it is still right at .001. When the weather gets good enough will take it out and test it.
I bet the the POI issue goes away. So far I have never tested a ahead of the crown tuner that won't change POI.
Let me back up on that a little. The only way I have made a tuner that's in front of the crown shoot without POI change is to install it while still in the lathe and true it to basically zero runout. After doing that POI change was not a issue.

Richard Brensing
 
OK Gene, back to the question I asked.

I have found a very tiny hole with my bare barrel. I have a behind the muzzle tuner. Do I screw the tuner to the back of the threads and begin to find the tiny hole I had when I screwed the tuner on? If I am able to find the tiny hole again, which way do I go to keep the tiny hole if things start to go south? I guess one needs to assume temperatures will almost always be increasing as the day goes on.

This is where the rubber hits the road, as far as I am concerned, which way and how much. Particularly when flags are dancing and very difficult to read with any consistency.

Thanks,

Pete
 
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Pete Wass said:
I have found a very tiny hole with my bare barrel. I have a behind the muzzle tuner. Do I screw the tuner to the back of the threads and begin to find the tiny hole I had when I screwed the tuner on? If I am able to find the tiny hole again, which way do I go to keep the tiny hole if things start to go south? I guess one needs to assume temperatures will almost always be increasing as the day goes on.

This is where the rubber hits the road, as far as I am concerned, which way and how much. Particularly when flags are dancing and very difficult to read with any consistency.

Thanks,

Pete
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If you shoot short range, you have plenty of time to test that yourself, even at a match....just shoot the sighter. I do this virtually every morning warm-up and throughout the day. If you have a good handle on your tuner, on your barrel, you would've already determined what you need to do with your equipment. I will not argue with anyone that finds something to work, with someone else's tuner. So, figure out what it takes with your tuner and your rifle . No one can tell exactly how to go win matches and some things must be tested.

Just stay small and methodical about tuner adjustment and it's easy!

And as a rule, if conditions are worth more than the tune, don't move it unless you're certain. Move it if you'd change loads.
 
mwezell said:
If you shoot short range, you have plenty of time to test that yourself, even at a match....just shoot the sighter. I do this virtually every morning warm-up and throughout the day. If you have a good handle on your tuner, on your barrel, you would've already determined what you need to do with your equipment. I will not argue with anyone that finds something to work, with someone else's tuner. So, figure out what it takes with your tuner and your rifle . No one can tell exactly how to go win matches and some things must be tested.

Just stay small and methodical about tuner adjustment and it's easy!

And as a rule, if conditions are worth more than the tune, don't move it unless you're certain. Move it if you'd change loads.
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Mike,

That last sentence is golden. Agree 1000%

Richard
 
I am looking for

mwezell said:
If you shoot short range, you have plenty of time to test that yourself, even at a match....just shoot the sighter. I do this virtually every morning warm-up and throughout the day. If you have a good handle on your tuner, on your barrel, you would've already determined what you need to do with your equipment. I will not argue with anyone that finds something to work, with someone else's tuner. So, figure out what it takes with your tuner and your rifle . No one can tell exactly how to go win matches and some things must be tested.

Just stay small and methodical about tuner adjustment and it's easy!

And as a rule, if conditions are worth more than the tune, don't move it unless you're certain. Move it if you'd change loads.
Click to expand...

exactly how to properly begin, not for someone to watch the flags for me. I thought that was pretty clear in my initial post and I was trying to talk with Gene here. I appreciate your help all the same.

Thanks,
 
Pete,

the flags determine how I set the tuner. I'm not Gene, but I can tell you this. The tune for a rifle in the calm is not the same as the tune for the rifle in the wind.

Richard
 
Pete Wass said:
exactly how to properly begin, not for someone to watch the flags for me. I thought that was pretty clear in my initial post and I was trying to talk with Gene here. I appreciate your help all the same.

Thanks,
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Lol! Right...what was I thinking? I think you know the answer to that. I had sworn off trying to help you. Remember that letter you wrote me a few years ago, Pete? You're lucky that my response was to throw it straight in the trash. I wish I'd kept it...I'd post it here. It was the most classless drivel I can ever remember. It was clear proof that you are are a miserable, clueless and poor excuse for a human being.
I replied because I believe you're up to it again. You were a freaking tuner expert when you wrote that letter...now you don't know which way to turn and you're asking where to start. Lol!

To those that aren't aware, Gene feels that with his behind the muzzle tuner that it should be moved out, away from the receiver as temps increase. I don't disagree either him.

I have long touted the opposite to be the case with my tuner. I move it in toward the receiver for temp increases.

Gene and I have discussed this and agree the difference may be due to beyond vs behind muzzle designs. Gene and I have a wonderful relationship. I have great respect for him and we know that there are far better ways for us to spend our energy.

As I pointed out, you have unlimited sighters in short range br. Small adjustments for temp are as simple as moving the tuner a mark one way or the other and firing a 3 shot group on the sighter...it either got better or it got worse. If it got worse, take that mark out and go a mark the other way..BINGO! It's that simple. By the sound of Petes letter to me, you'd think he wrote the book on tuners.
There is more to this story behind the scenes. Pete is trying to cause more trouble and is being disingenuous. Boy I wish I had kept that letter! Trust me, it made very, very clear just what kind of person Pete Wass is.

So, I didn't reply here until I saw him being disingenuous and sought to nip it in the bud. Instead, he pressed it further. Now you know.
 
It's to bad these tuner

threads get negative so quickly. There are a whole bunch of people wanting to learn what a tuner can do.
Mike, I'm not slapping down your last post. Sounds like you know Pete way better than most.
Just sayin wouldn't it be great to have civil debate on tuners?
I believe there is a lot more to be learned.

Richard
 
Richard said:
threads get negative so quickly. There are a whole bunch of people wanting to learn what a tuner can do.
Mike, I'm not slapping down your last post. Sounds like you know Pete way better than most.
Just sayin wouldn't it be great to have civil debate on tuners?
I believe there is a lot more to be learned.

Richard
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Richard. There are a hundred tuner threads on this site and if someone doesn't have some sort of idea on how to use a tuner by now, they ought to take up knitting. Mike forgot more about tuners than most people know. He's explained it step by step on here many times before and I disagree that there is a lot more to be learned about a tuner and what it does. It's not rocket science.
 
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I disagree,

there is a whole lot of difference between tuning for a single group and tuning for a agg. Lot's of difference between tuning in the calm and tuning for the conditions. That's what I'm talking about. To say that everything has been learned is pure BS. I teach guys how to run tuners and they have walked away amazed with what you can do with one.

Richard
 
Richard said:
there is a whole lot of difference between tuning for a single group and tuning for a agg. Lot's of difference between tuning in the calm and tuning for the conditions. That's what I'm talking about. To say that everything has been learned is pure BS. I teach guys how to run tuners and they have walked away amazed with what you can do with one.

Richard
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Well IMO in short range I don't care about the tuner width, because the tune is not going to stay in one spot, that's what the sighter target is for. Like I said some people make using a tuner way more difficult than the simple thing that it is and what it does, so tell me how much more IYO is needed that hasn't been said before? If the temp changes and my rifle goes out of tune and I move it a c-hair and I shoot at the sighter and say it's back in tune, what more do I need to know past that point?
 
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