D
Donald
Guest
Ain't it the truth.
Donald
Donald
8208 brx, not there yet
- Thread starter jackie schmidt
- Start date
T
tink
Guest
XBR Carbon Production
I have been trying XBR since the middle of January, 2010 and have yet to shoot a group without having to take extra steps to get a lot of carbon out of the barrels. I have shot it in temperatures from upper 30's to 80 degrees F. and see the same amount of carbon production. The barrels I've been using are Krieger 14-twist, one with 130 rounds on it now and the other with about 380 rounds. I normally shoot V133 and usually shoot from 29.0 to 29.4 grains. I have been shooting the V133 along with the XBR for comparison purposes. The XBR seems to shoot good for me anywhere from 30.2 to 31.0 grains.
I can shoot from 5-10 rounds of V133 and clean normally with no sign of carbon or copper. I can then clean the barrel and shoot anywhere from 5-10 rounds of XBR then clean normally as I would with V133 and end up with a signficant amount of carbon on the patch. I use Patchout, Accelerator, and Carbout(when it is necessary). Well, it certainly is necessary when using XBR. Carbout on a nylon brush and with four or five strokes followed by Patchout will remove the carbon, but this introduces another step in cleaning.
I have talked to people who have been successful with XBR at at least one major match (Cactus) and have not reported any problem with carbon. I also talked to another who used XBR at a match last week , came in 2nd, and reported no problem with accuracy. However, after returning home, he cleaned the gun and observed more carbon than usual.
Is no one seeing carbon? Are shooters getting good results in spite of the carbon? Do they care about the carbon if it doesn't impact accuracy? Are shooters not reporting carbon?
This is very puzzling and disappointing to me as I was really looking forward to this new product. Can anyone explain this to an old person?
Tink
I have been trying XBR since the middle of January, 2010 and have yet to shoot a group without having to take extra steps to get a lot of carbon out of the barrels. I have shot it in temperatures from upper 30's to 80 degrees F. and see the same amount of carbon production. The barrels I've been using are Krieger 14-twist, one with 130 rounds on it now and the other with about 380 rounds. I normally shoot V133 and usually shoot from 29.0 to 29.4 grains. I have been shooting the V133 along with the XBR for comparison purposes. The XBR seems to shoot good for me anywhere from 30.2 to 31.0 grains.
I can shoot from 5-10 rounds of V133 and clean normally with no sign of carbon or copper. I can then clean the barrel and shoot anywhere from 5-10 rounds of XBR then clean normally as I would with V133 and end up with a signficant amount of carbon on the patch. I use Patchout, Accelerator, and Carbout(when it is necessary). Well, it certainly is necessary when using XBR. Carbout on a nylon brush and with four or five strokes followed by Patchout will remove the carbon, but this introduces another step in cleaning.
I have talked to people who have been successful with XBR at at least one major match (Cactus) and have not reported any problem with carbon. I also talked to another who used XBR at a match last week , came in 2nd, and reported no problem with accuracy. However, after returning home, he cleaned the gun and observed more carbon than usual.
Is no one seeing carbon? Are shooters getting good results in spite of the carbon? Do they care about the carbon if it doesn't impact accuracy? Are shooters not reporting carbon?
This is very puzzling and disappointing to me as I was really looking forward to this new product. Can anyone explain this to an old person?
Tink
Jerry Dailey
Southron
Tink
I find that the XBR carbon fouls my bbls also as does Benchmark. As Jerry says, must be something that ADI does when mfg. their powder
I find that the XBR carbon fouls my bbls also as does Benchmark. As Jerry says, must be something that ADI does when mfg. their powder
jackie schmidt
New member
Well
For years, many of us have shot 133, (and winning), cleaning with nothing but Butches, a bronze brush, and patches.
I don't want to hear any crap about having to use ISSO, JB, Sweets, etc with this new powder. If we have to, it better shoot darned good. Right now, many of have found that all of that hype about it not being temperature sensitive is a bunch of bunk. It might not be velocity wise, but the agging capability changes a LOT.
I am hoping the lower load window will be the hot ticket. Won't be able to rest this week end, there is a Varmint for Score Match in Lake Charles Sunday that some of us are going to try and make. Ed, Geramo, and I are heading to the Shilen Swap Meet tommorrow..........jackie
For years, many of us have shot 133, (and winning), cleaning with nothing but Butches, a bronze brush, and patches.
I don't want to hear any crap about having to use ISSO, JB, Sweets, etc with this new powder. If we have to, it better shoot darned good. Right now, many of have found that all of that hype about it not being temperature sensitive is a bunch of bunk. It might not be velocity wise, but the agging capability changes a LOT.
I am hoping the lower load window will be the hot ticket. Won't be able to rest this week end, there is a Varmint for Score Match in Lake Charles Sunday that some of us are going to try and make. Ed, Geramo, and I are heading to the Shilen Swap Meet tommorrow..........jackie
I haven't won much. Hardly anything.
But, Jackie appears to sum it up pretty good.
And that appears to be the sentiment of a lot of shooters.
Last Friday at the range. A guy that shoots "High Power" asked if I wanted to buy, what is left of his XBR.
I don't think, he gave it a chance. But, it's apples and oranges.
He tried it in 5.56 and 6.8 AR. Might be just factory barrels. And not hot loads.
I am using it in 6PPC. Shoots good. And cleaning is easy. I think, easier than N-133.
Which is a huge improvement over H-322.
After cleaning, carbon on the lands is minimal.
But, Jackie appears to sum it up pretty good.
And that appears to be the sentiment of a lot of shooters.
Last Friday at the range. A guy that shoots "High Power" asked if I wanted to buy, what is left of his XBR.
I don't think, he gave it a chance. But, it's apples and oranges.
He tried it in 5.56 and 6.8 AR. Might be just factory barrels. And not hot loads.
I am using it in 6PPC. Shoots good. And cleaning is easy. I think, easier than N-133.
Which is a huge improvement over H-322.
After cleaning, carbon on the lands is minimal.
M
mike in co
Guest
in hipower he is prbbaly shooting 68/69-77/75, and 75/80's in an 8 twist bbl or so.
in my 1/14 with 52/53's a slow lot of 8202oem has given me my best groups in an ar15.
and i have not tried the new in a 308 yet....
too many other irons in the fire at this point.
mike in co
Jerry Dailey
Southron
Lot #4773
Burns dirty in my bbls. I always try to patch most of the black out before brushing. It takes 2 or 3 patches with 133 or pulled 8208 depending on conditions. It takes 6 or more with the XBR lot that I use. I also found that I had to come way down to get it to shoot. I started with all that I could get into the case with a slow drop and leave 1/8" to start the bullet (31.7 Grns for me). I've come down to 30.5 and its just starting to shoot. When weather permits, I will try 30.0. If it shoots, and I can keep the tune then I'm not worried about velocity and I can take a little extra time to clean. My findings may just be unique to me but I have heard that others have found the same thing. I sure hope that it works, I bought 48 lbs of the stuff
Burns dirty in my bbls. I always try to patch most of the black out before brushing. It takes 2 or 3 patches with 133 or pulled 8208 depending on conditions. It takes 6 or more with the XBR lot that I use. I also found that I had to come way down to get it to shoot. I started with all that I could get into the case with a slow drop and leave 1/8" to start the bullet (31.7 Grns for me). I've come down to 30.5 and its just starting to shoot. When weather permits, I will try 30.0. If it shoots, and I can keep the tune then I'm not worried about velocity and I can take a little extra time to clean. My findings may just be unique to me but I have heard that others have found the same thing. I sure hope that it works, I bought 48 lbs of the stuff
T
tink
Guest
How do I identify carbon?
Tom B,
Today, my most accurate method of identifying carbon is to look at my patches during cleaning. As I stated, I have been using Patchout as my cleaner. I have been using it since it first appeared on the scene. It has very sensitive color indicators for carbon (light tan) and copper (blue). I have had a Hawkeye borescope since they first came out and still use it, but not as much as I used to. Sometimes one doesn't know what he is looking at when he sees discoloration in the barrel. Flame tempering of the steel causes it to change color as well as other factors. So....for me, it is much quicker and reliable to rely on the patches.
Tink
Tom B,
Today, my most accurate method of identifying carbon is to look at my patches during cleaning. As I stated, I have been using Patchout as my cleaner. I have been using it since it first appeared on the scene. It has very sensitive color indicators for carbon (light tan) and copper (blue). I have had a Hawkeye borescope since they first came out and still use it, but not as much as I used to. Sometimes one doesn't know what he is looking at when he sees discoloration in the barrel. Flame tempering of the steel causes it to change color as well as other factors. So....for me, it is much quicker and reliable to rely on the patches.
Tink
Okay Tink.
Just making sure we are on the same page.
Some guy yesterday. Called me an expert. I am not. But, I was shooting a Custom 6PPC. Anyway. He ask me why he add burned powder on the shoulder of his cases. He was shooting an older Savage.
I have the 4773 lot of XBR. Yesterday. I shoot 48 rounds.
The first very wet patch was full of powder/black stuff. The second very wet patch was all grey.
Wanted to see this very dirty powder(usually clean after 10). My order had 3 jugs all the same lot number. 1 jug went to a Friend. He thinks it is dirtier than N133.
I think it is cleaner.
Loads were 30.1 and 31.0. Both shot pretty good. Winds were strong and twitchy 20 mph....
Just making sure we are on the same page.
Some guy yesterday. Called me an expert. I am not. But, I was shooting a Custom 6PPC. Anyway. He ask me why he add burned powder on the shoulder of his cases. He was shooting an older Savage.
I have the 4773 lot of XBR. Yesterday. I shoot 48 rounds.
The first very wet patch was full of powder/black stuff. The second very wet patch was all grey.
Wanted to see this very dirty powder(usually clean after 10). My order had 3 jugs all the same lot number. 1 jug went to a Friend. He thinks it is dirtier than N133.
I think it is cleaner.
Loads were 30.1 and 31.0. Both shot pretty good. Winds were strong and twitchy 20 mph....
Bob Brushingham
Member
07 133
My cronograph isn't working. So could some one tell me how many cliks I should start at to get in 3180 range with 07 133?
Bob
My cronograph isn't working. So could some one tell me how many cliks I should start at to get in 3180 range with 07 133?
Bob
T
tink
Guest
07 133
Bob,
I don't have a powder measure that has the Culver scale "clicks". I use an old BR-30 that has a micrometer scale. However, thru extrapolation and not weighing the charges, I calculated a particular setting on my measure that I think will produce about 27.2 grains of 07 133. I chronographed that load at 3185 fps last Friday. That may give you a starting point.
Tink
Bob,
I don't have a powder measure that has the Culver scale "clicks". I use an old BR-30 that has a micrometer scale. However, thru extrapolation and not weighing the charges, I calculated a particular setting on my measure that I think will produce about 27.2 grains of 07 133. I chronographed that load at 3185 fps last Friday. That may give you a starting point.
Tink
D
Donald
Guest
Bob,
Please don't take this personally. But I just have this thing about people talking about "clicks". There are different measures out there that operate on different "clicks". Please all of you....speak in grains of powder. You just might as well talk about how many thimbles of powder you use. It seems like all the barrels I have in 6ppc shoot good at about 28.5-28.7 GRAINS of 133. That seems to be the low node. There is of course a higher node up around 29.5 to 30.4 or so, but I don't like to shoot there, just me. Ok. rant over. )chill()chill
rolleyes:Donald
See Tink beat me to it. Not everyone shoots the high node. Some like it lower where the bolt lift is easy and cases last a lot longer.
Kirk Ethridge
New member
RE burned powder on shoulder
having burnt powder on the shoulder is a function of chamber size and brass fit.a larger factory chamber is more likely to have it than a tight match chamber.. if you get it with a match chamber, the brass is being sized too much or the neck is much smaller than the nk diameter of the chamber allowing blow back.
Kirk
having burnt powder on the shoulder is a function of chamber size and brass fit.a larger factory chamber is more likely to have it than a tight match chamber.. if you get it with a match chamber, the brass is being sized too much or the neck is much smaller than the nk diameter of the chamber allowing blow back.
Kirk
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Tain't what Tony says. He says you gotta' have powder on the neck or it ain't right.
neck yes, Shoulder no
Kirk Ethridge
New member
powder on shoulder
If you don't have it on the neck you are apt to get pressure spikes and high fliers..having tried a "fitted" neck chamber with negative results i have no doubt Tony is right.. In any event i doubt his brass shows burnt powder on the shoulder?
Kirk
If you don't have it on the neck you are apt to get pressure spikes and high fliers..having tried a "fitted" neck chamber with negative results i have no doubt Tony is right.. In any event i doubt his brass shows burnt powder on the shoulder?
Kirk
Jerry Dailey
Southron
You are absolutely correct
About the fitted necks. As long as everything is perfect all is great but you really have to stay on top of it. More trouble than its worth. Just let one neck get a smidge too thick and whammo, its in the next zip code. Might pierce the primer also. I didnt have time to keep turning necks between relays myself.