6ppc reamer

Tony Boyer was using a .263 neck and changed to a .268. =)

Wildcatter said:
Name at least one of the top shooters who went from a 262/263 range neck to a 269 neck that is shooting better now than they did before the change. I'm talking about the shooters who shoot most of the big shoots like NBRSA & IBS nationals, and a few of the bigger regionals like East-West, Hog Roast, Cactus and Shamrock.
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"Although I don't enjoy this part of the game, I do turn my own brass with a Nielson turner. When I shot a .263 neck, I turned the brass in two passes. I have since changed to a .268 neck and use one pass to complete the job."

Tony Boyer

Precision Shooting Magazine August 2009
 
On the Norma brass...there is the old, that would not take the pressure that Lapua does, and the new, which according to an excellent authority, will. Perhaps someone gave HopeToBe some of the old.
 
Wildcatter is correct. You still have not named a big name shooter that has done better since going to the thicker neck.

333smitty said:
"Although I don't enjoy this part of the game, I do turn my own brass with a Nielson turner. When I shot a .263 neck, I turned the brass in two passes. I have since changed to a .268 neck and use one pass to complete the job."

Tony Boyer

Precision Shooting Magazine August 2009
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Dave Coots said:
Wildcatter is correct. You still have not named a big name shooter that has done better since going to the thicker neck.
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But have they done worse? Seems like everybody is trying to prove a negative. I don't think it makes a bit of difference if the neck is .262 or .268 if they are turned properly.
 
As a relative new shooter to the sport of Bench Rest and the 6PPC I was glad to read about the use of minimal turn neck chambers. One of the key things was I was not required to buy multiple neck turners to turn brass for the thinner neck chambers. I had the extra money to put somewhere else.

What I do not and cannot answer is whether or not I am leaving something on the table having never tried a .261-.263 chamber. I have just shot the .269 neck. A few things that I have seen with the thicker brass is necks that DO NOT ding as easily and there is next to NO ONE I ahve to share my brass with unless they bring there next turner to the range....................... ;^P

Calvin
 
I asked Wayne C. about neck thickness some time ago when I were to order a new reamer. His answer were pretty much "Choose whatever you want, they all work". As to why they choose .268", his answer were that they just picked a number...

I went the .269" route, but haven´t had a single barrel chambered with the reamer yet.
 
When we started using .261 and .262 necks--that was a very light turn with the Sako brass we had at the time. Nothing magic about neck diameter.
 
MColeman said:
But have they done worse? Seems like everybody is trying to prove a negative. I don't think it makes a bit of difference if the neck is .262 or .268 if they are turned properly.
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Mickey

All i was saying was that Wildcatter wanted one name of a big shooter who is doing better with the larger neck. It hasn't been posted yet. :cool:Have a good one.:eek:

Later
Dave
 
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Calvin

Brass can be turned in one pass for a .261-.263nd if you have the tools for the job. People do it with a lathe all the time. .0085 is still .0085 if you do it in one pass or take 3 to do it. Just don't tell the brass....it won't know the difference. Why would you want to make extra steps to end up at the same result? I can see no benefit to turn brass more than one pass. IMO

Later
Dave

CYanchycki said:
As a relative new shooter to the sport of Bench Rest and the 6PPC I was glad to read about the use of minimal turn neck chambers. One of the key things was I was not required to buy multiple neck turners to turn brass for the thinner neck chambers. I had the extra money to put somewhere else.

What I do not and cannot answer is whether or not I am leaving something on the table having never tried a .261-.263 chamber. I have just shot the .269 neck. A few things that I have seen with the thicker brass is necks that DO NOT ding as easily and there is next to NO ONE I ahve to share my brass with unless they bring there next turner to the range....................... ;^P

Calvin
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the statement, implies that since they are not shooting better, there is no need to go to a thicker neck. this is an invalid statement. the statement implies that one should never make a change unless there is an improvement on the target...that just aint so. there is no requirement to be BETTER, there is a requirement to not be WORSE. ......
so as i pointed out, and others have also, the thicker neck has no draw backs, and makes life simpler. thats it....thats all.
as was pointed out in history, if all your equiptment is based on the thin neck stay there, but if starting out fresh...go thick and dont look back.
mike in co
Wildcatter said:
Name at least one of the top shooters who went from a 262/263 range neck to a 269 neck that is shooting better now than they did before the change. I'm talking about the shooters who shoot most of the big shoots like NBRSA & IBS nationals, and a few of the bigger regionals like East-West, Hog Roast, Cactus and Shamrock.
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Dave I can't argue with you on the point you mentioned. When you are talking lathe, you mean a REAL Lathe correct?

If that is the case I fully agree one pass. Is it done(or can it be done) with say a K&M turner like I use in one pass?

Calvin
 
Boyd Allen said:
On the Norma brass...there is the old, that would not take the pressure that Lapua does, and the new, which according to an excellent authority, will. Perhaps someone gave HopeToBe some of the old.
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Unfortunately I got the new ones. They stand the pressure 3-4 times, then they start to stretch. Primer pockets are usually fine, they handle the pressure that way. It is the stretch I do not like about them. But as I said, other than that the perform very well in every other aspect. They might be better when shooting 28-29 gr of N133, that I do not know since living in the climate I do that amount of powder is really no option.

The old Norma brass could not be compared to the new one. I still have a few lying around, I think I tested them twice back then ...
 
HopeToBe,
Did you leave your die set as it was for Lapua? If you did, it may be that because the new Norma is softer in the body, that you are getting more reduction in diameter, and bump, hence the greater need to trim. What does your shoulder bump measure on the Norma? Also, if you measure case length before and after sizing what do you get? I had thought about trying (paying for) 20 of the Norma, this is why I am trying to track down the reason for your trimming issue. I hope that you don't mind.
Boyd
 
Boyd,

I have had this in mind myself hence I am able to answer most of your questions.

A few words about my setup in general. I F/L size always (hot window) and bump the shoulder back by .0005-001'' depending on the barrel I use (all barrels done by the same gun smith and the same reamer is used). The case diameter is reduced by .001'' and a use a .257'' bushing (loaded round being .260'' chamber neck being .262''). It is just as I like it, a setup I have approached over the last few years. I experience very little stretch with Lapua brass (> 30 gr N133) with this setup which was the reason for why I tried Norma using the same setup since the barrel was the same.

I did use the exact same setup for Norma as I did for the Lapua brass. Diameter reduction was identical between the two, however the Norma brass seemed to be bumped back by .001-.0015'' which is 0-0.0005'' more than the Lapua. What I do find strange is that the Norma brass despite this stretched itself more than the bump for each shot when I was above 30 gr of N133; close to 31 gr the stretch was "out of control" so to speak.

Entering my first match with the brass I was not aware of this and HV100 went very nice. HV200 the day after something odd started to happen and the groups would just not be as good as they should have been. Checking the OAL answered my puzzle.

Primer pockets seems to be as good as Lapua - at least for the brass I have tested (100 pieces).

The OAL length difference before and after F/L was never measured - at the time being all of my Norma brass are sized and cut to proper length for training hence I am not able to do the exercise - sorry about that.

Hope that this answered some of your questions?
 
what is the base dia of the fired norma brass before resizing ???( well just above the base)
since you have to size for the bbl and it worked before...maybe it is just plain working the brass more...expanding more than the lapua, then being sized more, leading to growth out the neck ??
mike in co
 
Not sure I understand what you mean ... the size of the diameter after firing is "matching" the chamber, just as the Lapua brass does after firing. However, fresh Norma brass out of the box is actually "small" meaning you normally have to use them once before they perform well. First time I use them I consider it sort of a fire-form - it is needed to have the perform as they should. I measured them about .437'' at the .125'' datum line fresh out of the box.
 
HopeToBe,
Thanks for the run down. With Lapua (no Norma experience) I have to make sure that I check my die setting if I am changing from work hardened brass to a freshly fire formed set. If I don't, I get way more bump on the new stuff than I want. Also, I have found that the die setting that is correct at the start of a weekend, is not toward the end. I have to screw it in a small amount to maintain bump. That is why I asked what I did. Also, on those times when I have been surprised by unexpected case growth, I found that my die was set incorrectly, bumping shoulders too far. One advantage that I have in this area is that the Harrell Vari-Base die does not change the diameter of the shoulder, so there is less going on that might make a case longer. I should add that sized cases chamber just fine.
Boyd
 
I agree on you with this, however my experience on this is kind of limited. I am under the impression that fresh brass shoots better than "old" hence I rarely enter a two-gun match with less than 30 pieces that have been fired 2-3 times at a moderate amount of N133. I might keep them for training after a two-gun or I throw them away. I might be wrong on this, but I had a good experience once doing it this way hence it is hard to let this idea go - the brain is strange that way.

But the essence here is that my setup is tuned for fresh brass, Lapua that is. I can from time to time experience that Lapua brass tend to grow "less" than it was being fresh - which could be an effect like you described? In these situation my setup still seem to bump the shoulder enough to make the bolt operation stay at a comfortable level.

The Norma brass was used and tested using my setup as described above mainly for "fresh" Lapua brass. My observation might be wrong in the sense that I should have adjusted for it during a weekend. But seriously, if that is the case with Norma that is for me just another argument for the Norma brass not being good enough. I am back to Lapua and during my last two gun match I cut the length of the brass once. Less focus on setup changes and more on the shooting is kind of how I like it.
 
If I test some Norma. I will let you know how it fares by comparison. With me, die adjustment is somewhat fluid. I check for bump fairly often, using a short chambered barrel stub that I keep in my range kit. I fire cases in rotation within a set, and verify my die setting at the beginning of as session by checking the first case that I size. On the other hand, I have a friend that feels that a die adjustment is much more of a project, one that he avoids if possible. Of course he is a varmint hunter with hundreds of cases, with the result that no one case gets very many firings.
 
I have a good friend shooting with Lou this week and i had him ask Lou what he is thinking about the new Norma brass now that it has been out a while. The reply i got was that Lou is finishing up the surplus of Lapua brass he has and is going to use norma brass exclusively from here on out. Must be ok If Lou Merdica thinks its ok?? Its working out A OK for me. I know that much anyway. Lee
 
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