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Corey273
Guest
Would a .243 Ackley improved be a good accurate long range target/varmint gun?
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Cheechako
Guest
Cory
Back when NBRSA 1000 yard first started, the 243 Ackley was a very popular cartridge and won its share of fake wood trophies. It is not so popular anymore, but not because it can't cut it, it's just because it is old and not as chic as the newer cartridges. The same for the 300 Win Mag and the 300 WBY.
You'll hear all kinds of scary stories about it burning out barrels, etc, etc but take them with a grain of salt. Use good brass (LAPUA) and good bullets, in a good barrel and you won't be dissapointed.
JMHO
Ray
Back when NBRSA 1000 yard first started, the 243 Ackley was a very popular cartridge and won its share of fake wood trophies. It is not so popular anymore, but not because it can't cut it, it's just because it is old and not as chic as the newer cartridges. The same for the 300 Win Mag and the 300 WBY.
You'll hear all kinds of scary stories about it burning out barrels, etc, etc but take them with a grain of salt. Use good brass (LAPUA) and good bullets, in a good barrel and you won't be dissapointed.
JMHO
Ray
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CHeetahman
Guest
I had a 243 AI and its a great round. Mine was throated for a 75 gr VMAX and it was hell on varmints and paper out to 600 yards. I shot the barrel out and had it rebarreled in a 6mmAI and that is awsome!!! You get a little more case cap. over the 243AI and most say you get longer barrel life due to the case being a little longer. I love mine I use a 1:13 twist and get really great speed out of the 75 gr vmax. I would go with with your choice throated for either the 75 gr vamx or 87 gr vmax. Just my 10 cents
zeke mccune
Member
.243 Ackley???????
Hi:
Please explain to me what the attraction to the .243 Ackley is. If one improves the .243, one has a cartridge that has the same capacity as a factory round,the 6mm Remington. Why bother?
Another example of a usless round is the .250 Ackley. When improved, it is has the same capaicity as the the .257 Roberts so again. why bother?
There are probably many other examples of worthless wildcats so if you have any other examples, kindly post them here. Oh yes, the 708 comes to mind when one has the choice of the 7mm Mauser.
Good shooting,
Zeke
Hi:
Please explain to me what the attraction to the .243 Ackley is. If one improves the .243, one has a cartridge that has the same capacity as a factory round,the 6mm Remington. Why bother?
Another example of a usless round is the .250 Ackley. When improved, it is has the same capaicity as the the .257 Roberts so again. why bother?
There are probably many other examples of worthless wildcats so if you have any other examples, kindly post them here. Oh yes, the 708 comes to mind when one has the choice of the 7mm Mauser.
Good shooting,
Zeke
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Rich K
Guest
Can soembody who has owned a 243AI tell me how many rounds before the barrel accuracy degrades? What is the definition of degrades , i dont know;approaching 1 " groups at 100 yards for a varmint rifle?!
As far as AI is concerned just improving case capacity similar to another available round is it not also to do with burn efficiency and case stretch?
, i dont know;approaching 1 " groups at 100 yards for a varmint rifle?!As far as AI is concerned just improving case capacity similar to another available round is it not also to do with burn efficiency and case stretch?
Worthless wildcats?
Well I see your not a fan of P.O. Ackley or the other numerous wildcatters that advanced the sport to what it is today. If you want to shoot your factory ammo once, go ahead and stick with a factory available ones. I am huge fan of the 6mm Rem and still own a couple and have owned 6 others. Better performance that a 243....yes. Maybe I should buy another.... on that's right only Ruger makes that know of and its for a Number 1 (certainly could be wrong here). I do know that Remington dropped my favorite factory round. As much of a love the fast factory performers like the 6mm Rem and the 22-250, I like the Ackley versions of them very better. Better velocity is ok. But the case life is tremendous. I have shot some of my cheapo Win brass 5 & 6 without having to bump the shoulders back in the 22-250AI. Never could do that with a standard factory 22-250 chambering and a warm load. Same story with the 6mm Ackley. If I build another, hot 6mm I would strongly consider a 243AI simply for better premium brass selection. I probably would also consider the 6-6.5x47 Lapua. I currently use RWS 7x57 brass to form my good 6mm Rem and 6mm Rem AI brass. Lots of good 243 brass choices.
The 22-250 was a wildcat for 20 years before Remington picked it up. The guys that came up with the PPC set a new standard for accuracy.
Sorry. "Worthless" to you is a gem in my eyes. However shoot the round that fits your propose. A lot of factory work just fine. My obsession at the moment is shooting really small groups at every increasing distances and long range varminting. These worthless rounds are working good for me.
To each his own, tiny
Well I see your not a fan of P.O. Ackley or the other numerous wildcatters that advanced the sport to what it is today. If you want to shoot your factory ammo once, go ahead and stick with a factory available ones. I am huge fan of the 6mm Rem and still own a couple and have owned 6 others. Better performance that a 243....yes. Maybe I should buy another.... on that's right only Ruger makes that know of and its for a Number 1 (certainly could be wrong here). I do know that Remington dropped my favorite factory round. As much of a love the fast factory performers like the 6mm Rem and the 22-250, I like the Ackley versions of them very better. Better velocity is ok. But the case life is tremendous. I have shot some of my cheapo Win brass 5 & 6 without having to bump the shoulders back in the 22-250AI. Never could do that with a standard factory 22-250 chambering and a warm load. Same story with the 6mm Ackley. If I build another, hot 6mm I would strongly consider a 243AI simply for better premium brass selection. I probably would also consider the 6-6.5x47 Lapua. I currently use RWS 7x57 brass to form my good 6mm Rem and 6mm Rem AI brass. Lots of good 243 brass choices.
The 22-250 was a wildcat for 20 years before Remington picked it up. The guys that came up with the PPC set a new standard for accuracy.
Sorry. "Worthless" to you is a gem in my eyes. However shoot the round that fits your propose. A lot of factory work just fine. My obsession at the moment is shooting really small groups at every increasing distances and long range varminting. These worthless rounds are working good for me.
To each his own, tiny
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Ackman
Guest
Of course it's a good one. There're bigger cartridges that are better for way out there, it just all depends on what you consider to be "long range" and how much powder you want to burn. I shoot 70's at 3800-3850 through mine and haven't gotten around to messing with anything heavier. One barrel with about 1500rds is starting to show some throat wear, but still shoots fine.
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Ackman
Guest
Poor Zeke. You're real ignorant about this stuff aren't you?
And....Improved cartridges aren't wildcats.
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tylerw02
Guest
-Its not a wildcat, its an "improved" cartridge. The two aren't the same.
-Sometimes people like to be different.
-Brass lasts nice and long with the 40* shoulders.
-It gets one to the speed they want and fits in a magazine better than a 6mm Rem. with heavier bullets.
-Lapua brass can be easily fire-formed whereas one has to buy Norma 7x57 brass and neck it down to form 6mm Remington brass if you want quality brass.
That said, I have a good ole 6mm Remington AI for my 6mm live varmint rifle. I get the 40* shoulders combined with a longer neck. I can suffer through using Winchester brass and grab that extra velocity edge. My only complaint is 105s up won't fit the Rem 700 magazine if seated .005" or less off the lands. Lapua 105s don't like to jump in this rifle, but 87 gr V-Maxes don't mind.
wow, tough crowd here on this post.
Zeke,
Case capacity is really irrelavent in the benchrest game.
Accuracy isn't strictly about case capacity. It's more about case geometry, which translates to efficiency.
Also, many here believe that brass quality plays a significant role in accuracy, from it's consistency. Folks like to fireform cases from Lapua brass, hence, many of the AI's and wildcats are based on rounds that Lapua makes brass for.
Also, many gun makers choose rounds that feed through their actions. The 7mm-08 feeds through a 308 length action well. Where a 7mm Mauser is intermediate in length and may or may not go into a magazine/action.
So, case capacity is way down the list on importance.
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Corey273
Guest
Damn Zeke, im runnin out of options when on your terms. check this out zeke....http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html. also, do you know anything about accurate cartiges? I know i dont know much about them thats why i started this thread. I needed help, i didnt need to get B!tched at.
Corey,
I don't know where you are in your learning/shooting/reloading curve so this may or may not be relevant.
I've had a bunch of .243AI's, still have several. I've tried 5 different .243AI reamers and 10-12 barrels on several proven rifles. Many thousands of rounds.
The .243AI is possibly the coolest looking varmint round on the planet
Barrel life is right there with others in its class. NO extra wear due to the "short neck".
BUT..........in all honesty it ain't a great choice EXCEPT for its coolness factor. It won't really do ANYTHING that the standard .243 won't do, except look cool.
It's really hard to resize. You'll need custom-built dies to do it right and will probably need two tries to get them right.
To answer you first question, I think there's a better choice, there's ONE round which fills your bill exactly .... 6BR. The 6BR will match the .243AI varmint for varmint for half the money in setup and shooting cost but will absolutely KICK ALL ASS on the .243AI in the target department. I've shot thousands of rounds side-by-side using the .243AI directly against the 6BR. I've got three Bench Rest grade rifles which each have BOTH barrels and can compare several against several.
After having thoroughly explored the 6BR, my latest venture is the 6X47 based on the brand new 6.5X47 case. THIS is proving to be an absolutely spectacular varmint/target round. It simply obliterates ALL of the .243/6mm/250 cases in all regards. It will walk all over a .243AI and not even get its feet dirty.
IMO the 6X47 round is THE ULTIMATE Varmint/Target round if your target choice is stuff 600-1000yds away.
My Prediction????? (It's a new round, time will tell)
There ain't nuttin' on earth that'll hang with it in a 17lb gun.
BTW, the 6X47 will BOOT ya' shooting 107's! I couldn't handle one for a day of doggin'........
hth
al
I don't know where you are in your learning/shooting/reloading curve so this may or may not be relevant.
I've had a bunch of .243AI's, still have several. I've tried 5 different .243AI reamers and 10-12 barrels on several proven rifles. Many thousands of rounds.
The .243AI is possibly the coolest looking varmint round on the planet
Barrel life is right there with others in its class. NO extra wear due to the "short neck".
BUT..........in all honesty it ain't a great choice EXCEPT for its coolness factor. It won't really do ANYTHING that the standard .243 won't do, except look cool.
It's really hard to resize. You'll need custom-built dies to do it right and will probably need two tries to get them right.
To answer you first question, I think there's a better choice, there's ONE round which fills your bill exactly .... 6BR. The 6BR will match the .243AI varmint for varmint for half the money in setup and shooting cost but will absolutely KICK ALL ASS on the .243AI in the target department. I've shot thousands of rounds side-by-side using the .243AI directly against the 6BR. I've got three Bench Rest grade rifles which each have BOTH barrels and can compare several against several.
After having thoroughly explored the 6BR, my latest venture is the 6X47 based on the brand new 6.5X47 case. THIS is proving to be an absolutely spectacular varmint/target round. It simply obliterates ALL of the .243/6mm/250 cases in all regards. It will walk all over a .243AI and not even get its feet dirty.
IMO the 6X47 round is THE ULTIMATE Varmint/Target round if your target choice is stuff 600-1000yds away.
My Prediction????? (It's a new round, time will tell
)There ain't nuttin' on earth that'll hang with it in a 17lb gun.
BTW, the 6X47 will BOOT ya' shooting 107's! I couldn't handle one for a day of doggin'........
hth
al
C
chino69
Guest
.243 AI barrel life
I have a 1 in 10" Douglas barrel chambered in .243 AI that I put 1500 rds. through. They were all hot loads and I didn't baby the barrel. After 1500 rds. there was throat erosion and considerable fire cracking, but the barrel was still shooting well. I gave the barrel to a friend who has put 300 rds. through it and it's still shooting accurately. We talk back and forth and I keep waiting for him to tell me it's given up the ghost but not yet.
Chino69
Can soembody who has owned a 243AI tell me how many rounds before the barrel accuracy degrades? What is the definition of degrades
As far as AI is concerned just improving case capacity similar to another available round is it not also to do with burn efficiency and case stretch?
I have a 1 in 10" Douglas barrel chambered in .243 AI that I put 1500 rds. through. They were all hot loads and I didn't baby the barrel. After 1500 rds. there was throat erosion and considerable fire cracking, but the barrel was still shooting well. I gave the barrel to a friend who has put 300 rds. through it and it's still shooting accurately. We talk back and forth and I keep waiting for him to tell me it's given up the ghost but not yet.
Chino69
Kevin Ballowe
Member
I agree.
Remember, for any given choice, there are always alternatives.
If that's what you want then get one.
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lilabner
Guest
I have a .243 and use it once in a while on big game. The 6mm Rem. is touted as a flatter shooting, higher velocity cartridge. If the AI is equivalent to the 6mm and I choose to convert to it, a shot with the AI chamber reamer can get me there at modest cost. Hope that answers the question.
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Rich K
Guest
Thanks Chino, well if you can get 1500 rounds out of a barrrel in any cal you are happy with, well to me thats not a bad investment!
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axlenut
Guest
Here's the truth about everything Ackley.
There is no good ballistic reason to use any Ackley Improved chambering. Then again, there is nostalgia and just the cool appearance of the fireformed Ackley case. Personally, I swoon over the .257 Roberts Ackley Improved, and the .35-.348 Winchester Ackley Improved. Ackley was trying to do two or three things: Develop a more efficient case shape that maximized internal capacity (higher velocity than parent cartridge); develop a case shape with mechanical advantages (less bolt thrust and stretching); make a bit of money selling his ideas and conversions while still allowing use of factory cartridges in most designs (the .35-.348 Win AI begin an exception as it is a wildcat rather than a true improved cartridge).
My old Remington 700 is on it's second .257 Roberts AI Barrel, and it is the third rifle in this chambering. My .35-.348 Win AI is on a Siamese Mauser action. There have been others.
The 243 Winchester and 6mm Remington are as good as they get as is, without the complexity of "improving" them. Built on a trued action with a premium barrel either cartridge will do everything anyone would desire.
Remember, Ackley did the bulk of his cartridge development in the period following WWII, passing in 1989, so that we have components and cartridges that were not available to him. He always tried to push the envelope, or indulge the occasional stunt, with such creations as the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer, designed for Bob Hutton (the .378 Weatherby necked to .22). With today's powders and bullets a knowledgeable experimenter should be able to reproduce any ballistic advantage of an improved cartridge in the parent case.
A well crafted precision barreled and chambered rifle in a standard cartridge, when fired with cases sized in properly dimensioned and adjusted dies, will negate any case stretching advantages of the improved shape. With bolt thrust less of a problem in a modern bolt action with minimal headspace, than it was in older rifles and other action types, this is not much of an advantage.
I now limit myself to standard cartridges to avoid having to fireform cases. This is easier on me, the brass and the barrel. If I want more case capacity, I go to a larger case, and give up nothing in the bargain. Then again, it's fun to have at least one Ackley Improved rifle gracing the old safe.
There is no good ballistic reason to use any Ackley Improved chambering. Then again, there is nostalgia and just the cool appearance of the fireformed Ackley case. Personally, I swoon over the .257 Roberts Ackley Improved, and the .35-.348 Winchester Ackley Improved. Ackley was trying to do two or three things: Develop a more efficient case shape that maximized internal capacity (higher velocity than parent cartridge); develop a case shape with mechanical advantages (less bolt thrust and stretching); make a bit of money selling his ideas and conversions while still allowing use of factory cartridges in most designs (the .35-.348 Win AI begin an exception as it is a wildcat rather than a true improved cartridge).
My old Remington 700 is on it's second .257 Roberts AI Barrel, and it is the third rifle in this chambering. My .35-.348 Win AI is on a Siamese Mauser action. There have been others.
The 243 Winchester and 6mm Remington are as good as they get as is, without the complexity of "improving" them. Built on a trued action with a premium barrel either cartridge will do everything anyone would desire.
Remember, Ackley did the bulk of his cartridge development in the period following WWII, passing in 1989, so that we have components and cartridges that were not available to him. He always tried to push the envelope, or indulge the occasional stunt, with such creations as the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer, designed for Bob Hutton (the .378 Weatherby necked to .22). With today's powders and bullets a knowledgeable experimenter should be able to reproduce any ballistic advantage of an improved cartridge in the parent case.
A well crafted precision barreled and chambered rifle in a standard cartridge, when fired with cases sized in properly dimensioned and adjusted dies, will negate any case stretching advantages of the improved shape. With bolt thrust less of a problem in a modern bolt action with minimal headspace, than it was in older rifles and other action types, this is not much of an advantage.
I now limit myself to standard cartridges to avoid having to fireform cases. This is easier on me, the brass and the barrel. If I want more case capacity, I go to a larger case, and give up nothing in the bargain. Then again, it's fun to have at least one Ackley Improved rifle gracing the old safe.
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