0,0077 group!!!!

[From Iceland]

Gentelmen!

0.0077 group!!! ...has it been mesured by the commity... Is it official?
Caliber? (.30 PPC?)
Bullet?
Barrel?
Powder?
Scope?

Regards,
Magnus Sigurdsson
Reykjavik
ICELAND

 

[jack white]

I will put what i know as is Mike is too modest to brag .I saw Mike Stinnet this morning and he said it is now OFfICIAL., but he hasn't got the target back yet. He works for an optical co and as soon as he gets the target he was going to have the reseach dept measure it again just for his own info . It is an official NBRSA record NOW..0077. It should hold for for awhile . A human hair measures .05. I was shooting beside Mike that day and he was running the match along with shooting. His first shot was off and he had to chase it with the next 4 and all in 2 min., with the wind gusting. He was shooting a 30 ppc , 10 ogive , BIB bullets , Krieger barrel lots of rounds on it.

 

[virg]

You think....

30 cal target bullets have been hard to get now; just wait til this word gets out. Anyone know the bullet weight?

Virg

 

[ewspears]

Mike's Bullets

Attached is the bullet and even the same lot number that Mike shoots. Ralph Stewart and I talked Randy into making that bullet for our 30PPC's about 6 years ago. Randy made some prototypes and sent to Ralph and I to test. They shot better than anything we had tried before. It just happened that Randy had just gotten in a really superior lot of J4 Jackets and Ralph Stewart, Mike Stinnett, and myself had Randy turn the whole jacket lot into 112gr, 10 ogive bullets for us. I think Mike got 15K from that initial purchase.

Just got off the phone with Mike and his world record was not shot with that lot number cause he said he shoots 10K rounds a year. It was shot with a later batch of the same bullet however!

 

[Charles E]

BTW, that 10-ogive die originated to make long-range flat-base bullets. The first kind of bullets made in that die were 187-flat base, the same as the bullets Joel Pendergraft later used to set the 1,000-yard 10-shot single group record (This World Record was supplanted by Matt Kline, Joel's is still the IBS record).

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ets-new-ibs-1000-yard-heavy-gun-world-record/

Originally, I paid for half the cost of the die -- it was an experiment after all, and not a cheap one! But after he got his hands on it, Randy figured out in that fevered brain of his that he could use it to make short-range bullets, and he wanted the die all for himself, so bought me out (with bullets, praise be. Better than money!).

Well, just a bit of history. Two World Records for R.G.'s bullets -- or maybe more, I can't keep up with it all these days. That is a great die, and R.G. is a great bullet maker!

 

[mike southard]

Mike how many rounds on that barrel??

 

[mstinnett]

Barrel Life Span

Mike how many rounds on that barrel??

About 4,000 - mid life for my chambers. Oldest died in Midland at the Nationals with 10,000.
It was the Fourth Target of the afternoon - so had been over 100 rounds from practice and morning match without cleaning.
I don't normally clean during a match (two days) and may just run a wet patch during the Nationals mid week.

 

[Boyd Allen]

Bare bullets?

 

[mks]

About 4,000 - mid life for my chambers.
... over 100 rounds ... without cleaning.

Even though "everything matters," it is good to know that there are some things that don't matter very much.

Congrats on an amazing group,
Keith

 

[Butch Lambert]

I will put what i know as is Mike is too modest to brag .I saw Mike Stinnet this morning and he said it is now OFfICIAL., but he hasn't got the target back yet. He works for an optical co and as soon as he gets the target he was going to have the reseach dept measure it again just for his own info . It is an official NBRSA record NOW..0077. It should hold for for awhile . A human hair measures .05. I was shooting beside Mike that day and he was running the match along with shooting. His first shot was off and he had to chase it with the next 4 and all in 2 min., with the wind gusting. He was shooting a 30 ppc , 10 ogive , BIB bullets , Krieger barrel lots of rounds on it.

Jack, My hair ain't that big!

 

[mwezell]

Jack, My hair ain't that big!

What hair?

 

[Butch Lambert]

Mike, My wife said my hair is possum blonde, but I still have all of it.

 

[mwezell]

Mike, My wife said my hair is possum blonde, but I still have all of it.

Just teasing ya, Butch. I wish I still had all of mine...wouldn't matter what color. You're right though, .05 hairs is some big hairs.

 

[alinwa]

About 4,000 - mid life for my chambers. Oldest died in Midland at the Nationals with 10,000.
It was the Fourth Target of the afternoon - so had been over 100 rounds from practice and morning match without cleaning.
I don't normally clean during a match (two days) and may just run a wet patch during the Nationals mid week.

HOLey SHNEIKE!!! He just made my month AGAIN!

 

[caroby]

Atta BOY Mike!

About 4,000 - mid life for my chambers. Oldest died in Midland at the Nationals with 10,000.
It was the Fourth Target of the afternoon - so had been over 100 rounds from practice and morning match without cleaning.
I don't normally clean during a match (two days) and may just run a wet patch during the Nationals mid week.

Always amazed how these 30's in short range BR shoot and shoot an shoot with minimal cleaning (or none) and minimal barrel throat wear..... Oh and this .0077 group is ahhhhhh WOOOOOOOOW Man..!

Happend to a GOOD Man and very dedicated Benchrest competitor... Atta Boy Mike!

cale

 

[goodgrouper]

About 4,000 - mid life for my chambers. Oldest died in Midland at the Nationals with 10,000.
It was the Fourth Target of the afternoon - so had been over 100 rounds from practice and morning match without cleaning.
I don't normally clean during a match (two days) and may just run a wet patch during the Nationals mid week.

Mr. Stinnett,

I would like your opinion on something since you seem to have been around the block a time or two with these thirties.
I have been contemplating building a 30br for group competition for quite some time. Due to the current barrel situation (in my opinion formed from recent experience, the barrels just aren't panning out like they used to. I haven't had a good 6mm barrel since 2009!), I believe it's time to put the 6ppc stuff on the shelf for awhile and go with a caliber that will give me 3 or 4 years out of a barrel instead of just 3 or 4 matches! I realize my odds of getting a good 30 cal barrel are probably near the odds of getting a good 6mm barrel, but at least if I luck out and get a good thirty, it will last me a few years. At least that's what I'm hoping, and by your above statement, I'd guess that is a good possibility?

So my questions are these:
1. Should I build a 30br or a 30ppc?
2. Does the 30ppc have the poop to agg competitively with the 6ppc @ 200 yards in windy conditions?
3. Is there a noticeable difference in recoil between the two?

Please keep in mind that this gun will never be used for score shooting, only for group, and all weekend long. I will shoot HV and LV with only this one 10.5# gun.

Thanks a bunch,
Jim

 

[mstinnett]

30 Build Opinion

Mr. Stinnett,

I would like your opinion on something since you seem to have been around the block a time or two with these thirties.
I have been contemplating building a 30br for group competition for quite some time. Due to the current barrel situation (in my opinion formed from recent experience, the barrels just aren't panning out like they used to. I haven't had a good 6mm barrel since 2009!), I believe it's time to put the 6ppc stuff on the shelf for awhile and go with a caliber that will give me 3 or 4 years out of a barrel instead of just 3 or 4 matches! I realize my odds of getting a good 30 cal barrel are probably near the odds of getting a good 6mm barrel, but at least if I luck out and get a good thirty, it will last me a few years. At least that's what I'm hoping, and by your above statement, I'd guess that is a good possibility?

So my questions are these:
1. Should I build a 30br or a 30ppc?
2. Does the 30ppc have the poop to agg competitively with the 6ppc @ 200 yards in windy conditions?
3. Is there a noticeable difference in recoil between the two?

Please keep in mind that this gun will never be used for score shooting, only for group, and all weekend long. I will shoot HV and LV with only this one 10.5# gun.

Thanks a bunch,
Jim

Jim, of course you know what they say about opinions!

1. If you believe your existing 6PPC build is competitive I would go with 30 PPC - if you already have a 308 bolt face rig - go with the 30 BR... I believe the 30BR can be just as competitive as the 30PPC. It would also give you some additional powder options (4198 or Benchmark).

2. My testing show the 30 can shoot just as small as the 6 at 200 yards and is more tolerant of poor wind conditions (less wind impact). I finished 10th Unlimited Grand at the 2012 Nationals - made up a lot of ground at 200 yards using a 30PPC.

3. I can feel the difference in a 30PPC or a 30BR....but I can also tell if I'm using a 112 gr or 114/115 bullet. I'll say this is not a deciding factor on the selection.

4. Barrels - I've got 10 barrels and all will shoot .0s (tunnel tested), use the Gordy method (index) chamber.

5. 99% of the time I shoot 10.5lb for all events not a true heavy. I found shooting a heavy (practice) leads to poor bench manners on the 30 - this is also one of the reasons I stopped moving back and forth between the 6 and 30. My original intent was to shoot 6 Group and 30 Score.

6. While the barrel will last forever, but in the current environment your going to have a difficult time finding good 30 bullets and they are expensive! An alternative for practice is 125gr TNTs or 110gr Serrias but even those can't be found.

I would actually suggest a 30 Major instead of a 30 PPC due to powder volume limitations. Suspect the 30 Major can be just as accurate with wider bullet selection and powder capacity to make 2950fps.

 

[goodgrouper]

Jim, of course you know what they say about opinions!

1. If you believe your existing 6PPC build is competitive I would go with 30 PPC - if you already have a 308 bolt face rig - go with the 30 BR... I believe the 30BR can be just as competitive as the 30PPC. It would also give you some additional powder options (4198 or Benchmark).

2. My testing show the 30 can shoot just as small as the 6 at 200 yards and is more tolerant of poor wind conditions (less wind impact). I finished 10th Unlimited Grand at the 2012 Nationals - made up a lot of ground at 200 yards using a 30PPC.

3. I can feel the difference in a 30PPC or a 30BR....but I can also tell if I'm using a 112 gr or 114/115 bullet. I'll say this is not a deciding factor on the selection.

4. Barrels - I've got 10 barrels and all will shoot .0s (tunnel tested), use the Gordy method (index) chamber.

5. 99% of the time I shoot 10.5lb for all events not a true heavy. I found shooting a heavy (practice) leads to poor bench manners on the 30 - this is also one of the reasons I stopped moving back and forth between the 6 and 30. My original intent was to shoot 6 Group and 30 Score.

6. While the barrel will last forever, but in the current environment your going to have a difficult time finding good 30 bullets and they are expensive! An alternative for practice is 125gr TNTs or 110gr Serrias but even those can't be found.

I would actually suggest a 30 Major instead of a 30 PPC due to powder volume limitations. Suspect the 30 Major can be just as accurate with wider bullet selection and powder capacity to make 2950fps.

Thank you very much for your answers. I have a couple more questions if you don't mind?

Why isn't the 115 Berger used more often with these cartridges? I never see it listed in any equipment lists. I could probably get my hands on those easier than some of the other brands.

And what is a 30 Major?

How long must the barrels be in any of these cartridges to make 2950 fps?

My current 6ppc rig runs a .308 boltface and I've never had one problem associated with it. Would that come into play with the smaller 30's?

Thanks again!

 

[Butch Lambert]

Contact Mike Ezell in Kentucky about the 30 Major. If he isn't the daddy of this cartridge, he probably builds more 30 Majors than anybody. It does have a little more powder capacity than the 30PPC.

 

[goodgrouper]

Contact Mike Ezell in Kentucky about the 30 Major. If he isn't the daddy of this cartridge, he probably builds more 30 Majors than anybody. It does have a little more powder capacity than the 30PPC.

Thanks Butch.

I just did a little searching for the 30 major and found where I got confused. I was under the impression that the 30 ppc was a 30 Grendel since the 6.5 grendel was based on the 6.5ppc. But apparently, that was only in the beginning. After more development, the 220 russian case was used for the Grendel and they relocated the shoulder to produce a bit longer case with a shorter neck. So if I've got this straight, the 30 ppc and the 30 br are shorter (to the shoulder) than the 30 major, but the 30 br still holds more powder? And the 30br also has a longer neck and sharper shoulder? If that's the case, I know which cartridge I'm goin' with.....