0,0077 group!!!!

[mwezell]

Thanks Butch.

I just did a little searching for the 30 major and found where I got confused. I was under the impression that the 30 ppc was a 30 Grendel since the 6.5 grendel was based on the 6.5ppc. But apparently, that was only in the beginning. After more development, the 220 russian case was used for the Grendel and they relocated the shoulder to produce a bit longer case with a shorter neck. So if I've got this straight, the 30 ppc and the 30 br are shorter (to the shoulder) than the 30 major, but the 30 br still holds more powder? And the 30br also has a longer neck and sharper shoulder? If that's the case, I know which cartridge I'm goin' with.....

In simple terms, a 30 Major is a .070" long 30ppc. The shoulder angle is the same between the ppc, br and the Major. The neck is shorter on the Major. All that means is that the reamer needs to be spec's right. I've run everything from 7 ogive .925's to 10 ogive 1" jackets with good luck. My personal preference is for a 7-3/4-8 ogive bullet on a 1" jacket...others may like shorter jackets, etc...Forget about all the ..where this or that came from...a .070 long 30 ppc(aka, 30 Major) will shoot, barrel life is at least as good as the 30 br, and most importantly, you simply buy 6.5 Grendel brass, made by Lapua, neck it up, turn and trim....and start shooting with a dedicated ppc bolt face. Did I make that clear enough? If not, don't hesitate to ask. I'll try to explain it better, but I'm not sure how I can. It's dead simple. I like it that way, too.

 

[mstinnett]

30 PPC Barrel and Bullets

Thank you very much for your answers. I have a couple more questions if you don't mind?

Why isn't the 115 Berger used more often with these cartridges? I never see it listed in any equipment lists. I could probably get my hands on those easier than some of the other brands.

And what is a 30 Major?

How long must the barrels be in any of these cartridges to make 2950 fps?

My current 6ppc rig runs a .308 boltface and I've never had one problem associated with it. Would that come into play with the smaller 30's?

Thanks again!

I see Mike has provided info on the 30 Major which he knows well.

My barrels are 22 3/4 and I use a tuner so careful to make weight for LV on my side as the Larson Stocks are a bit heavy compared so some others.

I never found any 115 Berger to buy or test - with the J4 jacket shortage you would think Berger had a billion of them on the market!

If your 308 bolt face works with the 220 R it should work fine with the 6.5 Gren case.

 

[jackie schmidt]

30BR vs 30PPC

The best 5 group aggregate ever shot in NBRSA Registered Competition with a 30 caliber was shot with a 1.550 OAL 30BR.

 

[mwezell]

I see Mike has provided info on the 30 Major which he knows well.

My barrels are 22 3/4 and I use a tuner so careful to make weight for LV on my side as the Larson Stocks are a bit heavy compared so some others.

I never found any 115 Berger to buy or test - with the J4 jacket shortage you would think Berger had a billion of them on the market!

If your 308 bolt face works with the 220 R it should work fine with the 6.5 Gren case.

Some ejector models won't eject the ppc rim diameter reliably, Mike. Extraction is usually not a problem...As you probably know.

 

[goodgrouper]

30 Major) will shoot, barrel life is at least as good as the 30 br, and most importantly, you simply buy 6.5 Grendel brass, made by Lapua, neck it up, turn and trim....and start shooting with a dedicated ppc bolt face. Did I make that clear enough? If not, don't hesitate to ask. I'll try to explain it better, but I'm not sure how I can. It's dead simple. I like it that way, too.

Yep, clear enough. Thanks.

So as to powder capacity, the 30 Major would probably hold a bit more powder than the 30br?

 

[goodgrouper]

I see Mike has provided info on the 30 Major which he knows well.

My barrels are 22 3/4 and I use a tuner so careful to make weight for LV on my side as the Larson Stocks are a bit heavy compared so some others.

I never found any 115 Berger to buy or test - with the J4 jacket shortage you would think Berger had a billion of them on the market!

If your 308 bolt face works with the 220 R it should work fine with the 6.5 Gren case.

Thank you Mr. Stinnett again.
Now it's a quest, I've gotta find some Bergers!

 

[goodgrouper]

The best 5 group aggregate ever shot in NBRSA Registered Competition with a 30 caliber was shot with a 1.550 OAL 30BR.

Thanks for pointing that out Jackie. I got your drift. Aggregate is the magic word in this adventure. And I really prefer the longer neck, fatter powder column, and more abundant gear available for the 30BR. Plus the brass is cheaper!

By the way, I am guessing that aggregate you refer to is the one you shot a few years ago? At the time, I think I remember you saying that you were going to quit shooting 30's in group because of the scoring conflicts associated with using something other than a 6. Are you still of this opinion? How far off were you seeing your targets scored on average?

 

[jackie schmidt]

I consider my 30BR my Score Rifle, and the 6ppc my Group Rifle.

Everything else is ancient history as far as I am concerned.

 

[mwezell]

Yep, clear enough. Thanks.

So as to powder capacity, the 30 Major would probably hold a bit more powder than the 30br?

No. Its capacity is pretty much right between the ppc and br. It must be a fluke....

 

[goodgrouper]

Ok, I quickly made up a few 30 br's this morning and made a few observations which leads me to yet more questions!

When taking the 6br up to 30, a big portion of the shoulder gets pulled up into the neck creating a monster donut, maybe more than twice the size of the donut found in 6ppc's made from necking up 220 russians. I couldn't find any 115 bullets to seat in the brass, so I don't know how close these types of bullets are getting to the donut. So I assume (I know, a bad word) that you guys are setting up your throats to avoid the donut similar to what we do with our 6ppc's. But the donut on these 30br is so large, I also wonder if you guys are turning what you can off the outside and leaving the inside? Or are you neck reaming? What is the typical neck diameter found on say the Robinette reamer?

 

[mks]

I also wonder if you guys are turning what you can off the outside and leaving the inside?

Yes. Seems like most, if not all, of the donut gets pushed to the outside by the neck expander, then gets turned off. The bullets are seated pretty shallow to maybe 1/3 the depth of the neck. I don't know, maybe I am missing something. Will be interested to hear what others are doing.

0.330" neck is pretty standard.

 

[JJ-IA]

Excuse me if someone else asked and I missed the answer.
What was the 5x5 agg?
Congratulations!

 

[mstinnett]

30 Donut

Yes. Seems like most, if not all, of the donut gets pushed to the outside by the neck expander, then gets turned off. The bullets are seated pretty shallow to maybe 1/3 the depth of the neck. I don't know, maybe I am missing something. Will be interested to hear what others are doing.

0.330" neck is pretty standard.

Yes, there is a very dominant donut with 30BR - 30PPC creation. It is at the bottom third of the neck and unless your loading up some 150+ grain bullets you will not cause a problem. The donut is less if you fire form up the neck (Bullet down a junk 30 barrel or Pistol Powder with wad - you chose) as compared to using an expander. With an expander its mostly seen when you turn the neck it will be hit at the bottom and hard to get past.

Expander requires good lube and it will create a shorter case then a fire form. i.e. Mandrel on mine will yield 1.510 OAL while fire form will be 1.525. I have a custom expander so it allows a smooth cut on the neck - after two firings I recut with no change in the neck turner to skim off more of the donut that has moved around with brass flow.

I found with time that I don't consider brass ready for match until 15 firings and actually prefer 25+ to prevent tight brass due to hardening during the match (donut is gone by then). This number of firings for each piece of brass makes it difficult to keep them in sync across 100 plus rounds for a pre-load. I've broken mine down in to batches of 20 or 50 - so I can reload for a full match weekend if necessary. During practice I'm careful to keep the brass in sync (number of firings) by batch. The older the more consistent in sizing.

 

[mstinnett]

Agg.

Excuse me if someone else asked and I missed the answer.
What was the 5x5 agg?
Congratulations!

Well, fell a bit ashamed on this one....I was rushing and did not turn a good agg. 3th for that yardage with two screamers is not good shooting!

.473 / .092 / .328 / .011 / .237 Agg. .2282

 

[jackie schmidt]

Ok, I quickly made up a few 30 br's this morning and made a few observations which leads me to yet more questions!

When taking the 6br up to 30, a big portion of the shoulder gets pulled up into the neck creating a monster donut, maybe more than twice the size of the donut found in 6ppc's made from necking up 220 russians. I couldn't find any 115 bullets to seat in the brass, so I don't know how close these types of bullets are getting to the donut. So I assume (I know, a bad word) that you guys are setting up your throats to avoid the donut similar to what we do with our 6ppc's. But the donut on these 30br is so large, I also wonder if you guys are turning what you can off the outside and leaving the inside? Or are you neck reaming? What is the typical neck diameter found on say the Robinette reamer?

We here in Houston do make our 30 BR cases a little different. I blow them out first to sort of a 30 BR, retaining much of the originol 6BR length. I then expand them to fit the neck turner which does push all of the excess metal to the outside. This is all cut away during turning. Then trim to 1.540 for the 1.550 length chamber.

Since we fire these things countless times, a tad of a donut might form over the life of the case, but any bullet suited for Varmint for Score won't get anywhere near it.........jackie

 

[333smitty]

Screamer Groups

Well, fell a bit ashamed on this one....I was rushing and did not turn a good agg. 3th for that yardage with two screamers is not good shooting!

.473 / .092 / .328 / .011 / .237 Agg. .2282

Yeah I thought my 0.050 early Saturday morning would stand up for small group of the weekend...

Little did I know........ At least I can say I was there...

Congrats again Mike.....

V

 

[JJ-IA]

Well, fell a bit ashamed on this one....I was rushing and did not turn a good agg. 3th for that yardage with two screamers is not good shooting!

.473 / .092 / .328 / .011 / .237 Agg. .2282

Ashamed of shooting two screamers, a NBRSA world record, and a sub ¼ moa agg? What’s the world coming too!
The reason I asked is that I always wondered what McMillan's agg was, but I think it was lost in history.
Congrats again!
Jim

 

[goodgrouper]

Thank you Mr. Stinnet and Jackie once again.

Sounds like fireforming is the best way to make the brass. Anybody have a 30 cal junker barrel laying around threaded for a Panda/viper they want to sell cheap?! Probably not since nobody has worn a barrel out yet with this caliber!
Well, might have to expand the necks out the old fashioned way for my first barrel, then fireform from then on.

 

[jackie schmidt]

I have one threaded for a Diamondback, same as a Viper. But it is still a very good barrel.
I have a dedicated rig that I use out back of my shop to form my 30BR cases. Most of my buddies come over and use it as well.
My rig is a 6 mm barrel with a standard BR body with the neck portion reamed to .330. I shoot a fully loaded 6BR round in it, and what comes out is a fully formed 30BR case, ready to neck turn.......jackie

 

[goodgrouper]

I have one threaded for a Diamondback, same as a Viper. But it is still a very good barrel.
I have a dedicated rig that I use out back of my shop to form my 30BR cases. Most of my buddies come over and use it as well.
My rig is a 6 mm barrel with a standard BR body with the neck portion reamed to .330. I shoot a fully loaded 6BR round in it, and what comes out is a fully formed 30BR case, ready to neck turn.......jackie

Well, I've got a dozen burned out 6ppc barrels lying around. Guess I could ream one of them out with the 30br reamer and shoot 6br's down them. Never thought of that. Thanks Jackie.

By the way, how often are you changing your load during the day Jackie? Or are you pre-loading? Is it really true what they say about this cartridge staying in tune all day long without changing anything?