Wind flag article

J

jeffsvice

Guest
I've been researching windflag information on the forum. One of my searches returned a string started by Boyd Allen on windflags. Mr. Allen was seeking construction details and comments on proper use for an article.

Has that complilation been completed/posted/published yet? Perhaps I missed it.

I'm new to this and would like to read everything available.
 
Nowhere near finished...still in the information gathering stage

In the mean time, why don't you post your questions. They can help me to know which ones to address in the article, and someone will probably answer them sooner than my article will be done.
 
Wind flag questions

Thanks Mr. Allen, These are a few questions I'm working on right now. I can add more, but it's getting late in the day and I have to go shoot.

I'd probably start with understanding the scale of the shift in impact from a slight change in conditions. You can calculate the change in POI vs. POA at 100 yards given a consistent 1 mph cross wind as just under 0.1 inches, but that’s a 1 mph, 90 degree cross wind along the entire path from muzzle to target. (generic 68 gr 6 mm at 3200 fps) Given the fact that matches are won and lost over small shifts during maybe only a small length of that bullet’s path, I have to believe that ballistic calculations don’t apply here and don’t predict the real world shift.

If you’re shooting in perceived dead calm, but just as you’re about to pull the trigger, you see the feathery bearing mounted flag nearest the target gently rotate 60 degrees, and you touch the trigger anyway. From what I’ve read here, I understand that means you just dropped out of the top 20, maybe out of the top 50 – but practically speaking, just how much out of the .150 group you were working on does this last bullet strike?

Continuing along the same topic, some of the more innovative of this forum may have decided to try their hand a making their own wind flags. Perhaps those flags were not sensitive enough to changing conditions and didn’t react as quickly as some of the feathery, bearing mounted versions – is that much sensitivity required? On a “generally” calm day, the grass and trees are still – the homemade flags are practically inactive and the surveyor’s tape has an occasional flutter – do I need a flag that will show slight change in condition? You got to figure there are days when a sensitive flag would drive you nuts…because to a certain the extent the conditions never remain constant. Maybe a better question is what is a negligible shift in conditions?

When I first started shooting sporting clays, the variables seemed daunting. Unlike skeet where someone could tell you the lead at every station, in sporting clays your mind must put the unknown angle, distance, and speed of the target together somehow to make consistent shots. Worse, you often can’t see how you missed so much of the learning process is based only on what worked – IOW you can’t always learn from your mistakes. But over time, your mind develops an ability to calculate lead without trying to process each individual component (to varying degrees of success). Perhaps reading flags is the same - the answers to these questions will come with observation and experience, and maybe it can’t be explained, only experienced (or suffered, depending on your point of view).

Perhaps that little diversion into clay targets illustrates the concept I’m currently trying to reconcile in my mind. If I’ve got four flags out with the daisy wheels – one blade painted a contrasting color so I know they’re spinning at varying rpms – do we really process that “information” in preparation of our shots? Does the shooter look at each individual flag and make a calculated decision? Or is it like the successful wingshooter whose mind processes all the variables at once to make the split second decision – In other words, look at all the flags at once and trust his subconscious as to “what works”? Or are we using the daisy wheel only to reflect extremely minor wind movement that may be negligible according to how the earlier questions were answered?

I apologize in advance for the length of this post.
 
Jeff,
We don't know all the answers and you have some good questions. I believe that sensitive flags are important. Daisey wheels are slow to respond and both on the pickup and letup. They are good in a constant wind but won't respond fast enough to a letup or pickup. They also mask your vane in a tailwind making your vanes slow to respond to a wind shift and it can hide the vane in a tailwind. A little weight bias to the vane side will control some of the windshield wiper effect.
In my mind I think I know good flags, I just haven't learned to read them.
Of course the opinions on the flags are mine.
Butch
 
It is my intent to stay wihin the bounds of what is avaliable, what design considerations are involved, and opinion from several sources as to what is desirable, and why. I would think that learning to speak wind flag would be a whole other article, that should be written by someone who speaks the language better than I.:D

As to the effects of small changes, that is what practice is for. One of my most oft repeated mistakes is always trying to practice in mild conditions, and always trying to impress myself with the groups that I shoot in practice.

As I understand it, one HOF shooter, who has a great memory, will shoot lots of sighters in various conditions, remembering the effect of each condition, and then shoot his group in the last minute or less, holding for each sucessive shot as the wind changes, based on what he learned on the sighter. I will never be able to rember that well, but if I had more experience with difficult conditions, and did more "Let' see what happens when I shoot with this sort of change." I might be able to guess correctly more often about how much, and in what direction to hold off when things are switching too fast to use a sighter, or I have run myself out of time.
 
It's a common misunderstanding

I think you have it figured out but...

The wind, as shown by the flags we use, is not definitive. The "picture" is different from day to day and hour by hour. Trying to "KNOW" where the POI moves for a given change of the flags is counter-productive. Take a sighter. If you don't believe the sighter..take another.

Unless you have a real good handle on the conditions of the day, only the clock should force you to hold. A friend refers to holding as "borrowing". I find that appropriate as the more you hold, the more you pay back...with interest.
 
Jeff, I think you would be wise to keep things as simple as possible as you are getting started in this sport. To me that means, 1st - observing what condition is prevalent, 2nd - patiently waiting for that prevailing condition, 3rd - being ready to use that same condition over & over when it presents itself. You should take a sighter shot or two in your preferred condition to make sure it's consistent, and if it is, go with it. You will have the most trouble being patient, as even seasoned shooters do. However, patience will pay off. You can't be timid, though, you've gotta be ready & confident when that selected condition comes. Then, of course, practice, practice, practice. And, always duplicate match conditions while practicing - flag set, timer, etc. Good luck & welcome to the craziness.
 
Some ranges have their own little secrets to learn. At Riverbend the baffle over the benches can cause a big downward push if the wind is at your back. On my #1 flag I need to put a little troll doll holding a sign that says "DON'T SHOOT".

Even though the actual wind condition might be slight and easily held off for the invisible downward component can be a killer at 200. At our last score match the only 3x target I fired at 200 had a 9 out at about 5:30 and the next bull was a 10 on the outside of the mothball also at 5:30. The other 3 bulls were X's.
 
Some ranges have their own little secrets to learn.

Absolutely!
It helps to visit as many as possible and take notes. You still will end up learning something else when your there again. The last three local ranges I've shot at has had their burms change for one reason or another, and you can bet those so called "Honeyholes" are gone... It's a good excuse anyway!

-MP
 
Back
Top