Winchester 52C - BR Advice?

T

TCups

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Tomorrow morning I will shoot my second RBA match, and the first with my Win 52C. I have finally gotten the front skid plate properly fitted and it is very solid. The Caldwell Rock BR is as good as it is going to get (have a new top ordered, but it's not here yet). I did add a set of super feet and have figured out how to center on the target and use the rear leg leveling adjustment for fine adjustments on elevation. I have the trigger at about 12 oz. (actually someone must have done some trigger work on this rifle before I bought it) but it isn't going to get any better. I have a good bore guide and stainless steel cleaning rod, and gave the rifle a good cleaning this morning. It is scoped with a Weaver T36. So, I think I am as ready as I am going to get as far as equipment is concerned, at least for now.

What I seem to be struggling with is the proper positioning of the rear bag and whether or not to try to let the rifle fire with free recoil or to lightly shoulder the rifle. My last practice session was somewhat disappointing, but it seems the best arrangement is to lightly shoulder the rifle and squeeze the trigger by pinching it with my index finger and my thumb on the rear of the trigger guard. I shot yesterday with no wind and still seemed to get about one 7 or 8 ring flyer every 10 shots or so -- just couldn't seem to get in the groove or figure out what was causing the flyers.

Any suggestions or pointers on what the optimum position of the rear bag should be or any other hints that might improve my score? I have the rifle zeroed for Laupa Center X but also have 5 boxes of Eley Tenex Black Box to try tomorrow.

Here is the skid plate, rest and rear bag set up I will be using. Thanks.

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A 12 oz trigger pull is going to make free recoil shooting difficult at best. It is tough enough with a trigger at 2 oz. Try holding the rifle with your trigger hand and NOT touch the rifle with your shoulder. Perhaps just some thumb pressure on the tang area will do the job. Maybe a death grip will be needed, or something in between will work best.

The rear bag will tell you over time where the rifle wants it to be. In a match do it the same way (holding the rifle and rear bag placement) each and every time to avoid the variables. In time your scores will tell you what the rifle and bag like best. Keep notes or you will never really know what set up works best for your particular equipment and rifle. Good luck and most importantly have lots of fun. bob
 
no wind? are you using wind flags? what may seem like no wind may not be. need flags to tell for sure. are you on a solid bench? With a 12 oz trigger free recoil is not an option. try different holds on your 52 it may like one hold over another. also the eley may prove to work much better. If you shoot groups do you still get the fliers or only when shooting for score? What size groups will it shoot? Check when your rifle is sitting in the front rest that it will not move side to side. Make sure it will slide back n forth in your rests freely, if not some baby powder will help. I'm sure others will add to this but hopfully this will help. Dale
 
I think a light hold is the order of the day, as suggested. And I think I will start with the rear bag just behind the knob of the pistol grip. Definitely a solid (concrete & cinderblock) bench. The range was a muddy mess Friday when I practiced, so I didn't set out wind flags. I have always wanted to do it, so I carried a bottle of my granddaughter's bubbles and intermittently blew a bunch of bubbles out in front of the bench. Definitely a gentle meander of the bubbles, with them falling to the ground 8-10 ft out in front of the rest without much wind, R/L, up or down. It was overcast, muggy, and still. I also shot with a battery powered fan on my face to keep my glasses from fogging. It was great for that purpose, but it also makes it impossible to sense any change in the wind without flags downrange.

I am going over the Caldwell rest tonight, such as it is, making sure everything is snugged up and all the proper points lubricated so it won't have any unnecessary wobbles. I will definitely put some talc on the front bag tomorrow, too.

I know that the W52C is capable of ragged one-hole groups at 50 yards w/o wind flags and off a solid rest. Seems to like Lapua Center-X best, but I haven't ever tried the Eley Black Box before. Bought 5 boxes of 50 to try out tomorrow along with the Lapua. (Note to self -- wear the old boots tomorrow in case things are still muddy when I set out the flags. . . )

Wish me luck. Thanks.
 
Put a used piece of Bounce fabric softener [ like you use in the clothes dryer ] between the front rest and your glide plate. It looks like that front bag could be real sticky.
 
Have you tried completely backing off the barrel tensioning screw so that the barrel will be free floating?
Steve
 
No - Haven't done that, and I haven't experimented with torquing the action screws either. Do you just back off the tension on the screw, or do you take it all the way out and remove the barrel band as well? BTW, the rail now screwed and epoxied to the skid plate is the one you sent me. Thanks again. I ended up having to "bed" the topside of the skid plate with epoxy because the side to side torque from working the bolt action was too much for the single screw in the back of the rail to hold the plate securely unless it was bedded. It is very solid now, though.
 
I would completely remove the band. It has always been my experience that they shoot more consistently without the band. If all original, you will also find small strips of neoprene under the action and rear of barrel. You can try shoot with and w/o them to see what works better. I do know that if the tensioning band is still tightened down, that moderate cheek pressure can have a big influence on point of impact.
I have better luck with Midas "L" or Master "L" in the 52's. The larger diameter bullet seem's to work a little better for me in the factory 52's.
Steve
 
Steve:

OK, thanks again.

The front sight block and barrel band are off now. I didn't take the action completely out of the stock as I didn't want to get into any major alterations tonight, but testing with a strip of paper says there is a pressure point near where the barrel ring was removed, and that the barrel is free-floating in front of and behind that point. I suspect it is a neoprene band or something similar as you mention. I torqued the action screw to 20# to start with and we will see what happens tomorrow morning. I am sure that your are right about the cheek pressure. I tend to sweat, so I have been draping a 3M high efficiency wipe over the stock when I shoot, and I have been paying attention to how much cheek pressure I put on the stock -- usually just barely touching the cloth and only enough to get a steady sight picture in the scope. I will pay close attention to that, too.

TEC
 
In follow up . . .

I have replaced the Caldwell Rock BR top with a Sinclair top and Edgewood bag. The Sinclair top took about 5 minutes to install - the threads matched (1/4-20, I think). Interestingly, the top mount screw can be snugged up to a point where the top is very solid, but where some rotation is still possible. I plan to notch the front of the home-made skid plate so that when the rifle is advanced to the stop, the top and bag will automatically center to the centerline of the rifle & skid plate. I have kept the rifle atop the rest for about a week now, giving it occasional front-to-back movement and a bit of side to side rotary tweaking to keep it perfectly level, then snugging up the "ears" of the bag holder every day or two. The rifle has settled in much more than the picture shows and the Edgewood bag fits like a glove. These were taken a few days ago.

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I managed only scores of 205, 230, 232 last match, but again in the wind, and using the old Caldwell Rock BR rest before the top and bag were replaced. Even so, I consider it a great improvement for me. Still have lots to learn about the shifting wind, as you can see. But I have concluded that the Winchester 52C wants a fairly firm, shouldered grip -- not anything like free recoil. I have also determined that with the proper hold, it seems to do about as well with Wolf MT as with the Lapua Center X, at least in my hands (hooray!!). It will make more practice much more affordable.

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In all, the set up is now very solid and quite functional. Happily, I can switch out the tops very quickly and keep a sporter-style leather bag on the original rest top for recreational shooting. Looking forward to the next match with the new rest and bag to see how much of a difference it makes.
 
You said you are tightening the top and letting it settle. That is good, but make sure you are not putting so much pressure on your sled that the rifle is restricted during recoil. It should slide freely back and forth...and move the rifle back and forth a time of two after each and every shot making sure the rifle rests against the front stop. Too tight on the sled will cause you more problems than you can imagine. Putting talcum or baby powder on the top helps a great deal as well. Put some powder on every time you settle the rifle in before shooting a card. Powder on rear bag helps too. bob
 
What Fred said, that trigger can be taken down, and I would get a Ken Fulgram rest and your score will go up.
 
Win 52C & Me

Thanks guys, but I am really just an interloper here -- I don't intend to spend any more big bucks on any other high quality rests, or tuners or buy ammo any more expensive than Wolf Match Target for a while to come. Both the Winchester 56 and I will be forever stuck back in the 50's.

I spent a good while last weekend shooting with Lapua Center-X and Eley Match, "eeking" and tweaking and trying to figure out how to be a benchrest sort of guy with the 52C. And after an hour or so, I realized that 1) my accuracy sucked, and 2) I was having no fun. So, I grabbed on to that big heavy piece of nice walnut stock, planted the butt plate firmly in my shoulder and slipped my hand back under the forestock, and shot the 52C the way Winchester designed it to be shot, not trying to isolate it on a bag and rest with as little human contact as possible. I also rationalized that today's Wolf Match Target must be better than anything they had in 1956, so I put the rest of the expensive ammo away and switched back over to the WMT. Yes, I used the rest and rear bag to sight in on each bull, but then I made all of the "fine" corrections putting the crosshairs on target only by varying my hold slightly and by using my breathing -- and slowly, carefully pulling that "Micro-motion" trigger, which even at 12 oz, feels a lot lighter and is a fine, fine trigger, IMO. Though I wasn't keeping score, my accuracy improved noticeably, and more importantly, I started having some fun!

As for what was wrong with the set up with the above scores, I suspect that it was predominantly the skill of the shooter trying to make a benchrest rifle out of a 1956 target rifle not intended or designed for that purpose, and the shooter not knowing with any degree of certainty what the wind was doing to the shots.

Having come to my senses now, I have no expectation that I can or will shoot much better than the 230's no matter what, unless I practice a lot more on reading and adapting to the wind conditions, and that's just fine with me. I will most likely remain a "fringe element" BR shooter -- the oddball guy with the funny equipment, down at the far right end of the line (I shoot lefty). But I do intend to have fun banging away even if I do consistently bring up the rear end of the match scores for years to come, and I don't plan to just throw more money into equipment hoping for the best until I convince myself that my shooting ethic and skills are worthy of the investment. :)

PS: I am sending my Winchester 52C stock to a lady named Charlotte to have a Steinway piano finish applied to that fine old walnut stock. Wanna see what she did to a "beater" stock on my Rem 513-T? Amazing! And the "feel" is incredible, too.

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?71463-Professionally-refinished-stock-wanted-to-share-this
 
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TCups your post above mine was very well said!
You have to try some SK Standard Plus -it is suppose to be the same as Wolf both made by Lapua but it does shoot a lot better than Wolf for me. I was about to hang up my rimfire adventure , just cannot afford very much Eley at all.

The SK shoots as good as the Eley for me but has a flier ever 10 shots or so.. I have a lot of sub .200 groups with the SK standard plus. I can set my tuner on my bench gun with the SK, switch to the Eley and only be 1 or 2 clicks off. Now i can afford to play again with the $45 a brick.

The SK shoots the same as Lapua's CenterX.. When i see a flier i know it is the ammo and just keep shooting... and i am having a blast with my rimfire adventures!!!!!!!!!!! If i never fire another shot i have already won.... I'm old tired and 'wo out, thank God for Rimfire!!! joe
 
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