Why 17/18 twist on the 30 BR??

Nor Cal Mikie

Active member
Standard 30 caliber seems to be 11 and 12. Why 17 and 18 on the 30 BR?
The reason I ask is because I'am working with a 6.8 BR 11 twist and was wondering what difference a 17 or 18 twist might do. Factory bullets in the 90 to 110 range with pretty good results so far. What would a twist change do? (other than cost a bunch for a one time application because nobody makes a .270 in 17 or 18 twist) It would be a "one of a kind". If the 30 BR is the hot ticket, why not get real close with a 6.8 BR? Opinions and thanks, Mike.
 
because its benchrest ??? not "standard 30 cal"///my std 30 is 11...200/210 gr 300 win mag 1000 yd br
my std 308 win br is 1/15 with 125/135's
palma shoot 155's in 13/14's
guys shooting 112/118 shoot 17/18...cause it is br
where do you get yor 6.8 br bullets ??

how close is close ??
mike in co
 
It has been pretty well understood, for a long time, that for 1-200 yd. benchrest, trading off BC for accuracy works. Bullets that are relatively short for their caliber stabilize at slower twists (You might research the Greenhill Formula.) Spinning a bullet slower means that jacket thickness runout has less effect on accuracy. For longer ranges, the greater importance of wind drift characteristics tip the balance in favor of high BC bullets even though their faster twist requirements mean that their jacket eccentricities will have a greater effect. The 17-18 twists that you asked about require short bullets, and the accuracy that the combination delivers seems to be worth any loss in BC from what would be available from the longer bullets that require faster twists.
 
This is "close". Five shot group, off the bench with Speer TNT flat base.
Some days are better than others.;) No where in the "Compitition" class but a fun shooter so far and getting better all the time. A lot easier to read 6.8 holes at a distance.
I figured if the 30 BR could be "that" good, why not a 6.8 BR so I had a reamer cut, chambered a barrel and started to work.
The fact that nobody makes "custom" bullets for the .270 in the weight I wanted, I would have to work with off the shelf stuff and see what I could come up with. I'am having fun looking for bug holes but wondered what a different twist would do. And if anybody would have a better idea, it would be you guys. I do appreciate your input, Mike.
 

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Look like a good excuse to start making your own custom bullets. I have read some articles pertaining the 25BR and the outstanding accuracy that comes with it. I dont see why your chamber would be much different other than the lack of good bullets and that fact alone would be enough to keep me away from trying it. Heck maybe if you bought the proper tooling for the 6.6 bullets ( dies) maybe someone would make them for you. You wont really know what you have unless you get some good bullets. Sounds like a neat project though!! Lee
 
Getting the twist rate, that you want to use, should not be a problem. Most "cut rifled" barrel makers can make you any twist rate you wish. Getting some really good .270 bullets may be more challenging. I believe that the slower twist barrels also resist "torquing" better than the faster twist barrels.
 
Standard 30 caliber seems to be 11 and 12. Why 17 and 18 on the 30 BR?
The reason I ask is because I'am working with a 6.8 BR 11 twist and was wondering what difference a 17 or 18 twist might do. Factory bullets in the 90 to 110 range with pretty good results so far. What would a twist change do? (other than cost a bunch for a one time application because nobody makes a .270 in 17 or 18 twist) It would be a "one of a kind". If the 30 BR is the hot ticket, why not get real close with a 6.8 BR? Opinions and thanks, Mike.

As pointed out above, first, you'd need bullets, or, at least, jackets, and a set of bullet swaging dies. You'd need to calculate a jacket length suitable for the desired bullet weight, then, you'd need to know the bullet geometry, and determine the finished over-all bullet length produced by your dies, and the jackets. Then, go to a reliable drag/twist calculator, such as the McCoy based JBM Ballistics calculator, enter the geometry/mass data and calculate the 'correct' barrel twist-rate for that particular bullet.

Of note, for the bullet LENGTHS being used for [thirty caliber] BR work, the 17/18" twist rates are NOT 'slow', but rather JUST RIGHT (as in, CORRECT), imparting, at least, 1.4 gyroscopic stability factor (Sg) to the bullets in question. For the best possible precision, Sg should be between 1.4 and 1.9: it's best to calculate for Sea Level , and use 'Standard conditions'; doing so will provide a reliable safety-net, as will using a bullet somewhat - say 0.030" - LONGER than the REAL model. As I recall, when assisting with a .264 bullet project, for a 82 -85 Gr. bullet, we needed a .920" long jacket, which in turn, dictated a 1:12" twist rate. Both the other person and I were surprised at the relatively 'fast' twist requirement - we'd been leaning toward 1:14" or so. A .277 bullet, of similar length/weight, would get by with a slightly slower twist-rate . . . this is interesting - I'll do a calculation . . .

The BIG issue is always suitable jackets. With the BIG name brand bullets, you could take the measurements, and use JBM to calculate twist-rate, which, for the particular bullet, will produce a 1.4, or greater Sg. But, dreaming of suitable jackets, I took a wild guess - at the length - and came up with the following model: Tangent 10 caliber ogive (nose radius); 0.050 meplat diameter; finished OAL of 0.97" (Flat BASE bullet); weight, 97 Gr. (10.0 Specific gravity); BC .383; Sectional Density 0.181; twist rate [for 1.5 Sg] 1 turn in 13.9 inches. Just one possibility.:eek: Good shootin'! RG
 
As expected, you guys come up with some of the "best" stuff. Sounds like I'll have to do some homework. Thanks a bunch, Mike.
 
Why not go with a 7mm BR? It's already been done. And the bigger the bullet, the more recoil you'll have to deal with. Ever heard of a 6.8 BR? PT&G hadn't either when they cut my reamer.
They said it was a "first". I figured the 6.8 BR would be something a little different. I started working with the 6.8 SPC in a bolt gun then the wheels started turning and I came up with the 6.8 BR idea. Already got a 22 and 6 BR so the next step was the 6.8 BR. Good brass, easy to load and getting pretty good results so far. The bullet selection is kinda small but I'll keep working till I can't work it anymore. And so far I've only got about $350.00 invested in a barrel and reamer. Maybe a different barrel in the future? Lots of load work to do but it's fun no matter what the outcome.
 
You will get the best accuracy for a given bullet with the slowest twist that will stabilize. For the .30 BR, that means somewhere around 1/18" (?). I was just tonight working on an article that describes why this is. I'd be happy to post a link when it's ready.

The general idea is that bullet defects cause your bullets to run off in the wrong direction. The faster you spin them, the farther they run - so don't spin them any faster than you have to.
 
I have a kid's hunting rifle in 270X39AI or is it a 270PPC? I have the reamer also. It is an excellent, very accurate kids deer rifle. No BR quality bullets are available, so it will remain an accurate kid's hunting rifle. This ain't a new idea as I have had the rifle for 15yrs and John Bunch gave me the reamer. John and Red Cornelison fooled with it many years ago. Ain't nothing new out there. Ask Cheechako.
Butch
 
Just playing with JBM stability calculator. Given a 14 twist in .243 and a bullet at 68grs finished length of .859 and MV of 3300 the
stability is in the red at .964. At 200 yds, this same bullet has lost approx 600 fps and now at 2700 fps it has a stability of .902.
Its now very much in the red. This seems quite a way from ideal. Should the downrange stability thing be a concern, or has it
already been accounted for
 
Do yourself a favor and study cloely what Randy said above, and then study it again. Also look up everything ever written on this forum about the 6.5 BR and 6.5 Grendel, along with 6.5 bullets. The same answers will apply to your 6.8.
 
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