Who shoots free recoil?

[gordon gauge]

I had just assumed that everyone was shooting free recoil like in .22 rf BR. Then I started noticing some guys latching onto their guns, heck a few were close to hugging them.

Does the typical airgun prefer the hands on approach? Yes, I know all guns are different. But on average does the airgun require more contact than a .22 rimfire?

Thanks, John Harris

 

[Paul Bendix]

John,
I started shooting free recoil but did alot better holding my Rapids and USFT with just a light touch with my thumb and very loose grip. I do not shoulder my guns at all. I have not noticed any one shooting free recoil.

Paul

 

[ShadowChaser]

I, too, have tried free recoil and found it doesn't work as well as holding the airgun with a light touch.

In my case, I specifically set up an Air Arms S400SL in a heavy custom made benchrest stock with a very light trigger, gun weighs 10.5 lbs and I shoot it in a Von Ahrens one piece rest that I have adapted to use three different type of front gun guides including one of Dave Dohrmann's modified front bags and to date in any of the three configurations of the rest, I get more repeatably consistent results by holding the gun lightly...

Edit to add: I wonder if the fact the airgun holds the firing charge of air at maximum pressure in a small chamber in the receiver which is released by a heavy slide hammer slamming the firing valve open very suddenly as compared to a rimfire gun having an ignition sequence and a very slight delay as the powder charge burns and develops firing pressure over the bullet traveling down the barrel about 16".

I would expect the firing timing sequence between the two types of guns is very different and would think the initial reaction of the airgun is much faster or sharper in its initial stage being at maximum pressure at the start of the sequence which may well be more directly affected by how the gun is held. Bear in mind that you also have the sudden stop of the slide hammer striking the valve in the firing process of an air gun which doesn't happen in a firing pin & primer fired powder charged gun.


Happy Shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...

 

[crb]

Free recoil .

 

[blades]

last Sunday- free recoil, any amount of anything other than than just enough trigger pressure made the little holes other than where I wanted them.(annie 2002BR, .177). At this particular shoot I did not have any side tension on the rifle (forgot to change front bag) managed a 243 which is good score at our range for air outside at 25 yds. Ideal day very slight breeze but as we are in a bowl strange things happen. Slight mirage would come and go more noticeable out at 50. There are times when free recoil does not seem to be the answer and the unit requires a loose grip when there is some side tension on forend.

 

[crazyhorse]

Is free recoil using a Caldwell Fire Control type device..?? I've been shooting air rifle from a Caldwell Tack Driver Bag & rear bag rest...which means very light shouldering griping rifle with just shooting hand........but no death grip on rifle..LOL...

Have not shot many 25 yd matches..only three....best score so far is 239....

 

[ShadowChaser]

Is free recoil using a Caldwell Fire Control type device..?? I've been shooting air rifle from a Caldwell Tack Driver Bag & rear bag rest...which means very light shouldering griping rifle with just shooting hand........but no death grip on rifle..LOL...

Have not shot many 25 yd matches..only three....best score so far is 239....

My interpretation of free recoil is based on what I have learned from other more accomplished benchrest shooters. It is letting the gun set in the rest with no contact with the shooter other than one's finger touching the trigger. The gun is free to slide back in the rest as it fires with the rest alone controlling the gun's motion. To me this means a rest system, be it a two piece rest such as Caldwell front rest and rear bag, or a one piece such as Von Ahrens or Pappas rest, should have a marriage with the gunstock such that there is very minimal tracking error.

Point is, free recoil can be used with any rest system as long as the system is set up properly and the trigger pull is light enough to have no effect on adding motion to the gun by itself.

That is my take on the free recoil method of benchrest shooting...

Happy Shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...

 

[gordon gauge]

Thanks for the replies.

I have shot free recoil with only trigger finger contact, and then shot the next group with the gun clamped down in the rest and groups are very similar.

However, when shooting for score it appears that some contact, ie: light cheek weld, no shoulder, is producing better scores than free recoil. Jury is still out though, as I am dealing with other variables at the same time.

JH

 

[ShadowChaser]

Thanks for the replies.

I have shot free recoil with only trigger finger contact, and then shot the next group with the gun clamped down in the rest and groups are very similar.

However, when shooting for score it appears that some contact, ie: light cheek weld, no shoulder, is producing better scores than free recoil. Jury is still out though, as I am dealing with other variables at the same time.

JH

John,
My experience so far is all in score shooting and my findings are very similar to yours in that I get slightly better scores with a light grip with my shooting hand on the gun as compared to free recoil. I do not shoulder the gun but do use a very light cheek weld as I prefer to be looking through the scope as I fire the gun and I rest my thumb over the top of the stock and gently touch the lower part of the grip with my lower two fingers to steady my hand as I fire the gun.

My most recent efforts have been with a new front bag from Dave Dohrmann at Tru-Kote Products. This bag is a "ProteKtor" #3 leather bag with a synthetic low slip fabric covering added to the leather saddle of the bag by Dave. This seems to be the most stable front rest arrangement I have tried to date however I've just started testing it.

My other preferred method of supporting the gun in the rest is a front guide I designed and made myself that is similar to the front gun guide of the Pappas rest excepting that my design is a bit more compact and the gun rides on and between teflon guide buttons. I'm not totally convinced the front guide makes that much difference however it seems the sand bag is more forgiving and compliant to the firing motions of the gun. Perhaps a better way of putting it is that the sand bag is more absorbent of the sudden forces generated by the firing of the gun. Its a subject still under investigation and I have not come to any conclusions yet, there is a lot more testing to be done and free recoil may work better with this new front guide bag system.

Happy Shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...

 

[gordon gauge]

Thanks again for all the interesting replies. As I think back over my benchrest time, I realize that I have gone from contact with the gun to slowly moving to free recoil exclusively. I also notice that my scores have been on a steady decline parallel with my move to free recoil.

Time to go back to what worked.

Thanks.

 

[crazyhorse]

So much depends on trigger pull weight...mine must be close to 3 LBS...

 

[ShadowChaser]

So much depends on trigger pull weight...mine must be close to 3 LBS...

From what I have learned so far, You make a very good and valid point, having a good trigger with a light pull is one of the most important aspects of benchrest shooting and definitely for free recoil, trigger pull has to be very light for free recoil type shooting to work.

One of the features of the Air Arms S400 guns and one of the primary reasons I chose the S400 series airguns for my benchrest gun is the trigger mechanism AA uses. It is a sophisticated multilever fully adjustable design rumored to have been fashioned similar to the German guns and is a factory trigger that can be readily adjusted to a very light pull without modifications.

Also, as I see it, whatever system is used to rest the gun, there should be virtually no tracking error for free recoil to work well. I believe one of the problems I have with attempting to use free recoil is that I'm still working at resolving issues with how the gun in the photograph in the posting above tracks. There seems to be a slight twist in the action/air tube channel in the stock and I'm still working at resolving this issue. Hopefully, with the new front bag and resolving the tracking error will make free recoil work with this gun however the jury is still out...

Happy Shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...

 

[crazyhorse]

Think I'll experiment with the "free recoil" off my bags at home...got a good firm benchrest and 25 yard range...no wind in AM,so should be good test...

Just grip lightly with trigger hand..forestock on rest...no butt to shoulder..right...?? Ought to be a hoot...never fired a rifle like that before..

Da rest...cinder blocks with 24" x2" thick paver...

 

[ShadowChaser]

Think I'll experiment with the "free recoil" off my bags at home...got a good firm benchrest and 25 yard range...no wind in AM,so should be good test...

Just grip lightly with trigger hand..forestock on rest...no butt to shoulder..right...?? Ought to be a hoot...never fired a rifle like that before..

In the art of shooting a gun free recoil, no part of your body touches the gun except your trigger finger. The gun is aimed by setting the rest to hold the point of aim and then you fire the gun by only touching the trigger with your trigger finger. Neither of your hands grip the gun in any way and the gun butt is away from your shoulder.

There is another method of shooting that is similar to free recoil that you might want to consider and that is "pinching the trigger" This works better with guns that require a higher trigger pull pressure than what works for free recoil.

To do this, you only touch the gun with your trigger finger and thumb on the same hand. To fire the gun you place your thumb behind the trigger guard in line with your finger on the trigger and then squeeze the trigger against your thumb so that your thumb is offsetting the pressure being applied to the trigger.

With a good gun and rest setup, both these methods of rested shooting can be very effective especially if body motion is effecting your shooting.

Happy shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...

 

[crazyhorse]

Just tried two groups...one just using my trigger hand with rifle on bags.....the other shouldering like i always have been on bags......
...as my rifle is zeroed at 50 yards,I just used holdunder using same POA for both groups from 25 yards..

Tonight I'm going to change my set up and add a stop in front of my tack driver bag...and use some baby powder on "bag surface" inway of stock forearm....then shoot about twenty groups for each method..

But for now,I got vertical stringing on the free recoil group.....that may be variance in eye relief as my rifle is bolt action..or lack of front stop or both ???
The target is a download to 8x11 and reduced from actual size..so bulls are 7/8" vice 1 3/8"....free recoil group was 5/16" and the other one was 3/16" ctr-ctr...

Going to figure out a stop first...so I can return rifle to same position each time between shots..

I'll also try the "trigger" guard method last...

 

[ShadowChaser]

Crazyhorse, Thats some great shooting...

Here is a thought, looking at your bullseye marked "Free recoil", seeing the vertical stringing reminds me of rested pistol shooting which is another thing I've done a lot in the past (and still do occasionally)... If one rests the heel of the pistol grip on a bag or padded support of any kind, one gets the vertical stringing similar to what your "Free Recoil" bullseye shows.

In your picture of your setup, the pistol grip of your gun is rested on a bag. I'd suggest moving the bag back nearer the rear of the stock just ahead of the butt plate. Using a couple of sand filled socks either side of the stock on the rear bag to cradle and guide the gun would help or if you can borrow a bunny/rabbit ear type rear bag to try, moving the rear support back under the rear stock should help eliminate this vertical stringing...

In any case, its great to see what you are doing...

Happy shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...

 

[crazyhorse]

Tried a different set up...a scissor jack with rear bag back further back on stock...no more vertical stringing....shot patterns more "round" now shooting with just trigger hand on stock....limitation now is length of my bench plus need to make an adjustable clamp rest and fit to the jack....(LD suggested trying a scissor jack awhile back..LOL...)

Your suggestion moving rear bag off heel of stock worked...I shot 7-8 groups to be sure..

8 shot group...CTR-CTR...

Slight tendency towards the horizontal,but think a more secure forearm rest(clamp) will solve that...??

More 8 shot groups..25 yards..

I'll refine this set up and try more groups in a couple days...

 

[ShadowChaser]

Tried a different set up...a scissor jack with rear bag back further back on stock...no more vertical stringing....shot patterns more "round" now shooting with just trigger hand on stock....limitation now is length of my bench plus need to make an adjustable clamp rest and fit to the jack....(LD suggested trying a scissor jack awhile back..LOL...)

Your suggestion moving rear bag off heel of stock worked...I shot 7-8 groups to be sure..

<Snip>

I'll refine this set up and try more groups in a couple days...

Good news, glad my suggestion helped... And the scissor jack for a front rest is a great idea...

I was looking at the picture of your setup, looks good and solid however the 24" paver length seems to me to be a bit short and is cramping you...

Here is an idea for you based on my own experience. When I first started rested shooting on my indoor cellar range, I was using a Caldwell Rock BR rest with a Caldwell rear bag on a stand made of 2x3 for legs with a plywood top about 34" high. This stand was originally made as a transportable potting stand in a greenhouse and was pretty rickety when I scavenged it and my first modification was to disassemble it and put it back together with glue and screws replacing the nails it was originally put together with. I also added three diagonal braces, one on each end and one on the back. Now I have a very solid stand however it was only 20" wide by 28" long. It worked fine with the Caldwell rest and rear bag however when I switched to a one piece rest, the one piece rest is 29" long and 14" wide at the front end and I found myself needing more bench top.

The solution was a piece of 3/4" plywood 32" long by 26" wide attached to the original stand top which is also 3/4" plywood and most of the top is now 1 1/2" thick and very solid. This added top piece extends off the left side 6" with a couple of braces supporting the front overhang and from the middle of the left side to the rear where I sit to shoot is a 6" x 14" cutout. This allows the front of the one piece rest to fit to the edge and the extended part at the rear to be where I sit to shoot without cramping or crowding me. For a shooting bench made from scrap, its worked out surprisingly well...

If you could come up with a piece of material such as 3/4" plywood to extend the length of your stand top I would expect it will work a lot better for you.

Edit to add: After typing that, I looked at the picture of your setup again and realized that if you have a second paver and a few more blocks, you could add the second paver crosswise at the front of the present one and have an L-shaped bench...

Happy Shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...