Who likes a mystery ?

[fattfreddie]

I bought a gun at Rock Island Auction last week - the description was kind of vague, but it came with a Leupold 36X scope, so I figured that no matter what happened, at least I'd get a nice scope I do not have more money than sense, but sometimes I behave like I do.

Anyway, in the auction description, the gun was described as a 6mm Benchrest gun, so I kind of assumed (remind me not to assume anything in the future) that it was 6mm BR. Also, the gun was only pictured from the bolt side, and there was no ejection port on the right (bolt) side, so I also assumed that it was a super fancy custom action, right bolt / left port. Please see above regarding making assumptions.

Gun shows up today, and lo and behold, there is no ejection port at all ! It appears that the cartridge is loaded into the bolt, the bolt is inserted into the action, the gun is fired, and the spent cartridge is "ejected" with the bolt. Also, it's not a 6mmBR, or at least I don't think it is, because a 6mmBR round will not fit into the groove in the bolt.

So - does the gun or action pictured below look familiar to anyone ? Any additional information will be greatly appreciated. And finally - any advice on how I might go about determining what it shoots ?

Thanks again in advance for your help.

 

[alinwa]

It's junk Freddie..... I'll give you a hunnerd bucks for it even thought you should be paying ME to take it off your hands.



This thread might be of interest... http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62104&highlight=wichita

Let's just see how this plays out. You'll get some feedback over the next few days. I'm not familiar with mini shellholder actions but there are those here who ARE.

Neat setup.

Meantime, I'll speculate that it's either a PPC based round or a .222 based round, only a chamber cast will tell for sure.

This should generate an interesting discussion though, thanks for sharing.
al

 

[alinwa]

Al, this thread exists only to torture me - confess!

Freddie, that's a Wichita shellholder action, I'm guessing in PPC from the P on the end of the serial number. I see a bit of stamping on the barrel, but can't read it, what does that say?

Sigh... I'll match Al's generous offer...

#47, probably in PPC........ oughtta' be worth a hunnerd eh?

LOL

al

 

[tim]

I'm guessing that they are late 70's early 80's. They were offered as a lower cost option to the 1375 action that cost $325. I was considering one until I saw an ad in PS magazine for a gun in a hardware store in Alabama that was for a 1375, smithed by Fred Sinclair, HV, stocked in a Mcmillan, painted by this new guy Tom Meredith, unfired with Fred's sizing die $500 +s&h so I bought it.

 

[Dennis Sorensen]

Interesting concept...

It looks like it was loaded pretty hot as few times... I wonder how deep the gas cuts are in the boltface.

 

[fattfreddie]

Mystery followup

Thanks for all the responses, I really appreciate the help.
With regard to the stamping on the barrel, it does say 6mm P and there could be more, but there is a ring at the front of the action which may obscure additional letters.

Thanks for all the generous offers but I'm not planning on selling the rifle in the near future - my main concern is with not blowing it up when I go to shoot it.

As I noted earlier, the base of a 6mm BR is too wide to fit in the groove in the bolt face. I appreciate the advice of making a chamber cast in order to be certain.

Any additional info would be appreciated as well, thanks again.

 

[alinwa]

I'm guessing that they are late 70's early 80's. They were offered as a lower cost option to the 1375 action that cost $325. I was considering one until I saw an ad in PS magazine for a gun in a hardware store in Alabama that was for a 1375, smithed by Fred Sinclair, HV, stocked in a Mcmillan, painted by this new guy Tom Meredith, unfired with Fred's sizing die $500 +s&h so I bought it.

Yeahhhh, that was a few years back eh? "This new guy Tom Meredith" .......500bucks......

That's a neat rifle right there.


fattfreddie, could you take the time to find a BR gunsmith? Or buy 10bucks worth of cerrosafe from Brownell's and take a chamber cast? You've definitely come to the right site for information, of all the sites on the net this is where you'll most likely find someone who knows that rifle, maybe even that particular rifle. Someone like Bob White could probably identify the original builder and owner!

I'll second German, you're a lucky guy. That's a great find.

al

 

[alinwa]

The recoil lug doesn't go over the barrel, so I suspect it used to say 6mm PPC and was set back at some point.

If a .220 Russian case will fit the bolt (and I think it will) then try fireforming it without a bullet and take some measurements. The neck diameter will be critical, you will likely find that it is in the 0.262" range and will require neck turning on new brass.

Great find, you're a lucky guy!

fattfreddie,

If you're going to fireform a .220 case in the chamber please let us know and ask for some advice re the actual proceedings. You'll be advised on how to find the headspace and how to use a SMALL dose of pistol powder or maybe some shotgun powder and NO BULLET!!! This is all good advice but I just want to make sure that if you're not a BR guy you know what you're getting into.

Al-safetygeek-inwa

 

[benenglish]

After the near future...

Thanks for all the generous offers but I'm not planning on selling the rifle in the near future...

I'm the guy who started the thread referenced above by alinwa. Thanks for saving me the trouble of PMing you. If you ever change your mind, I hope you'll keep me in mind.

 

[fattfreddie]

Thanks again

Regarding the chamber casting, it's not something that I'm planning on doing on my own. Any recommendations for a capable gunsmith in Northern CA ?

Thanks for the support on the "great find", but I wasn't really looking
I will take some more detailed pictures if anyone would like to see them.

And yes, I am relatively new to benchrest shooting. I shot highpower for many years, but the intricacies of BR are new to me. So if anyone thinks that this gun is not "appropriate" for me, I'd be happy to trade it for something more appropriate in 6mm BR, so PM me.

Thanks again.

 

[Cheechako]

I really hate to be the one and only thorn in the rosebush but, just what exactly is so great about that action/rifle. Except for possible value to a collector, that is. To each his own but it's certainly not something I would buy if I was looking for a competitive Benchrest rifle and I doubt if any of you would either.

Sorry. JMHO

Ray

 

[benenglish]

I really hate to be the one and only thorn in the rosebush but, just what exactly is so great about that action/rifle. Except for possible value to a collector, that is. To each his own but it's certainly not something I would buy if I was looking for a competitive Benchrest rifle and I doubt if any of you would either.

I'm the guy who was looking for an action to buy. Here's my reasoning.

I realize these actions are unsuitable for benchrest competition as it's done these days. Despite the fact that they are exceptionally short and stiff and, thus, have the potential to form the basis of a really accurate rifle (and the fact that they're relatively simpler to manufacture and were sold at bargain prices back in the day), nothing can be done about how slow they are. It's impossible to quickly fire five record shots in a given range condition when you must extract the entire bolt with each shot. As a result, everyone has concluded that they are unsuitable for benchrest competition and nobody uses them. If fattfreddie didn't realize that when he made the purchase, well, at least he got himself a nice scope. I also can't imagine a better "meditation" rifle than what he bought. A really accurate rifle that forces you to slow down, take your time, and just enjoy a day at the bench (IOW, a super-duper "casual target rifle") could be a joy to own and shoot, even if it never sees competition.

My motivations are completely different, though. I want one of these actions for, in basic terms, an art project. The action is smooth all the way around and presents, in profile, a simple rectangle. It's a perfect blank canvas for engraving. I don't intend to shoot it in any type of benchrest competition.

I really don't know why anyone else would want one. I can't think of any shooting sport where it would be the best approach and it's wholly unsuitable for most.

 

[fattfreddie]

Where are you located in Northern,California? I'm about 60 miles north of the Golden Gate Bridge and have 6 ppc brass plus cerrosafe sitting around.Northern california is a big area.
Lynn aka Waterboy

Lynn:

I'm in Vallejo.
If you're interested in helping me solve this mystery, I'd be happy to come to you.

Thanks

 

[brian roberts]

FFreddie, actually to make a good...............

chamber cast, just lightly oil the chamber & about 1-2 inches of bore. I think it was in OL, where they used a heat gun or hairdryer to warm the chamber, then used Paraffin for the cast. Just use the hairdryer, & buy a small, cheap saucepan with a smaller one to fit inside for the wax, a small funnel(homemakers) & you're good to go. Oh, yeah, I almost forgot, judging by the size of those lugs, you might have to try hard, at blowing it up. Have a good time with your new rifle, if you decide to keep it.