What have I got? What do I do?

H

Holzmetzger

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Hi all, totally new here and hoping a few of you can provide some advice and knowledge.

A few months ago I picked up a match rifle at an estate auction of a competitive shooter and NRA instructor that passed away from a sudden illness. I was looking for a hunting rifle but those got bid up a bit high so I picked up what might be an older Palma rifle, or high power? I'm not inclined to get into competitive shooting right now, so I'm not sure what I want to do with this, or what it might be worth if I were to sell or trade it, so I'm hoping some of you here might have share an opinion and some knowledge.

It is a Winchester 70 (early '70s based on Serial No.) chambered for Win .308 with a 26" stainless Hart barrel with a heavy Palma contour. I don't know the twist rate, but the barrel is clean and shoots well and looks to have plenty of life left in it. I shot about 25 rounds of several kinds of factory ammo and once I got dialed in with my bad eyes got sub MOA with aperture sights and fading light.

It has Redfield International Match sights; the rear is in very good condition with just a couple spots of wear on the bluing and the front globe sight has some damage to the threads for the insert but is useable (owner made a little mod to keep it on). Rifle also has three Unertl posa blocks so presumably the owner also shot with a scope.

It has an ISU/high power-style walnut stock in good shape (some dings and wear but nothing major) with a little figure to it, cast-off, palm swell, blind well magazine, and rail on the forend for a hand stop. Action has been partially bedded. Trigger is stock but I believe probably modified (cleaned up sear, etc). No creep or overtravel, breaks cleanly and probably 2-3 lb pull. I don't know if the action has been trued/blueprinted, but I can't imagine the owner would have just slapped the Hart barrel on there without some additional work. I don't know of a good gunsmith here in Richmond, VA that could take a close look at it and evaluate some of these details.

So...I'm wondering what this might be worth. I'm still looking for a hunting rifle and if this has any decent value I may just look to sell or trade, but if not perhaps keep it and make a project gun out of it. Any thoughts? I've attached a pic.

Thanks, Jake
 

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I believe what you have is a 300 metere free rifle, I think they were built to shoot 155 gr Sierra international match bullets. Not saying other weight bullets wouldn't be just as effective. Does it have an operable magazine? Does it have a clip slot on top of the receiver? If it has both it could certainly have been used as a match rifle. Looks pretty nice,
 
I just looked that up and it's an Army match rifle, only made one year 1971 value in my 15th edition of modern gun values from good condition $600 to perfect condition $800. May be worth a little more now.
 
So it is!

Steelhead, thanks tons. I would never have found that info. Indeed it appears I have one made in 72 or 73. I'd never even noticed the two screws at the rear of the receiver for the trigger adjustment. That pretty much is the dead giveaway and it seems there weren't many of these produced. There isn't a lot of info online about these rifles so I need to try to track down more info and figure out what this is worth given the Hart barrel (non-factory) and determine what to do with it. I'd love to find out more about the history of the rifle itself if possible. This turned out to be a much more interesting rifle than I anticipated.

Thanks, Jake
 
As A suggestion, you could contact Winchester via a written letter with the serial # and ask them where the rifle was shipped too. Once you get that info you may me able to proceed! Otherwise you will have to work from the name of the estate you bought it from. Perhaps if you had a last name someone here may recognize it be able to point you towards more info. I shot hi power from the 1974 until the 82.
 
Steelhead, the previous owner was Robert "Bob" Caruthers from Richmond, VA. He was an NRA instructor and competitive shooter, but that is the extent of what I know. He also had a benchrest rifle but I don't know when he was active in competition.

I do plan to write Winchester and see what their records show. I tried emailing George Madis who is listed on Winchester's site as being an expert in their rifles, but it got bounced back.

Jake
 
Just checked the CMP site, ran through a list of distinguished Riflemen and he's not on the list, I also checked part of the list of people that have earned points but not yet distinguished and only got through about 4-500 names and eyes were getting tired, theres 4,933 names on that list. I also looked at some match results from the nationals in 2011 and didn't see his name either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't there.
Did find bio that you cited part of, If you could find out what shooting clubs in the Va area have high power matches you might find someone with match results that you can peruse.
 
Holzmetzger said:
I tried emailing George Madis who is listed on Winchester's site as being an expert in their rifles, but it got bounced back.
Click to expand...

Madis was a well-known collector/author who passed away several years ago.

The International Army Match Model 70 is described on pages 324-325 of Roger Rule's Model 70 book (The Rifleman's Rifle). He says it was made from 1970 to 1979 and was intended for the 308 Winchester 168 grain match bullet. He also says some were chambered in 30-06.
 
Shoot me the serial# , I have the Madis book, with serial #s I used to work in a gun shop in ElCajon,Ca that specialized in Winchester model 70's pre 64's. The Madis book focus's on all models made prior to 64. His pocket version states that when introduced in 1964 the new style model 70 number at that time was,#581,471. He does not delve into the post 64 numbers. The discrepancy in dates of manufacture are elusive as my books indicte that this particular rifle model was only produced for 1year. Book says introduced 1971 Dis continued 1971. Not saying all publications are correct, but that is the information I have.
They were custom shop rifles and from my research there may have been only 85 produced! One sold at auction in 2005 for $1,072.00. And an auction on gunbroker had one for $2100.00 and received no bids!
 
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I have a similar model 70. post 64 push feed blind mag.( 5 shot) clip slot, rail, still has original barrel( 30-06) stamped as a match, don't remember the exact wording right now. Un -molested stock. Got nib back around 83 or so from private party. 168,180, 190 gr match bullets 50+ gr of 4831 (that I had at the time) = 1/2 minute or better accuracy at 600 yards if I did my part when I was shooting competitively. Irons or scope. Think I paid $500 for it back then so its nice to hear that it is still apx. worth what I paid in a round about way. They are great rifles, on the heavy side to carry for hunting though. Although purists prefer the controlled feed and look down on the push feed units as some sort of abomination.
 
Boo FN/Winchester

So I called the Winchester "historian" and they have no records from the old custom shop and no records other than serial numbers by year of manufacture. What?!

I need to try to track down the Rule book. A copy of the blue book from 2004 indicted 1971 was the only year of production, but that isn't consistent with other sources which say production ran through '79. Values likewise are all over the place. Hmmmm. Mine is G1106863 indicating 1972-1973. It would seem it is either the army match, ultra match or Palma based on the adjustable trigger. The ISU stock, provided it is original, would point to army match.
 
1972

I have a letter from Winchester, in reply to a question concerning the International match rifle dated 1972 indicating the Army International was the only one being produced commercially.

A look at the older catalogs would seem to be in order.

jb
 
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