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mike in co

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ATK has been going around the auction process for once fired mil brass and buying direct from individual bases. they are paying less than market value of the brass as they are destroying the brass..and putting it back in thier supply line.

this is not a gun issue, it is a MONEY ISSUE. they are paying less than market value for the brass, the money is not going back to the tax payers, but to individual bases.

it has been going on for a couple of years now. it need to stop .it is hurting the taxpayer and supporting atk.

call your congress men, your senators. get your local clubs to write supporting letters. let the media know.

do not buy atk products. email them and let them know.

SPEER
FEDERAL
RCBS
WEAVER
SHOOTERS RIDGE
EAGLE INDUSTRIES
CHAMPION
OUTERS
CCI
ALLIANT POWDERS
GUNSLICK
RAM LINE
NITREX


add any if i misssed them

email
call
refuse to buy


mike in co

ps when contacted atk admitted to the process. it keeps mil brass from reloaders was one statement, tho they support auctions....lol
 
I guess I

dont really see the issue. Military base gets the money, so it is the taxpayer. I imagine the base has to justify the cost, so it more then likely is not below market value for govt sale.

stiller
 
Butch and Jerry,

I think the issue is that the fired brass has more value at auction when purchased for commercial reloading than ATK pays for it as scrap to be feed back into its brass mills. The base gets some money but the Treasury would get much more and civilian shooters, police departments, sheriff departments etc. would have greater access to a larger supply of commercially reloaded ammo and wouldn't have to buy as much new ammo (probably from ATK) for the same amount of training. Or they can do more training on the same budget.

I think Mike is making an important point.

Greg
 
Max Baucus

is the senator in charge of the committee that sells the brass. Last thing I read was that there are 2 companies that are allowed to buy brass from the govt. They then resell them to whomever they want at a profit. A few months back there was a special change that went through re-classifying brass such that it did not have to be destroyed or sold as scrap. Our buddy Eric Holder reclassified it at the beginning of his time I believe. Baucus found out and fixed most of it. This may be left over contracts that have to be finished. I wouldnt jump to any conclusions on this. It may change at some point on its own.
 
If the money goes in the base commanders fund. It's like a bribe.
If it goes in the Welfare and Rec. Fund. It's goes to the troops. Not a problem.
Unless, your Capt. wants a new stereo, curtains, carpet, etc. In his Stateroom.
The Ship, I was on, had some great parties. Funded by soda and cigarette sales.
In the shipyard, we put 10 soda machines on the flight deck. AND the Capt. allowed the shipyard workers access to the ship's store. With head of the line privileges.
Our Welfare and Rec fund tripled in 11 mos. :)
 
stiller said:
dont really see the issue. Military base gets the money, so it is the taxpayer. I imagine the base has to justify the cost, so it more then likely is not below market value for govt sale.

stiller
Click to expand...

there are some rules that are being bent or broken...and costing taxpayers money.
scrap/shreaded brass has nowhere near the value of once fired mil brass. when atk claims they "paid" for the brass, they ignore that they paid less than market value of mil brass.

there are gov regs inplace that require certain comodities to be sent to collection point for disposal via civilian run/government auctions. by selling locally these rules are not being followed.

this all came to light about a week ago. i asked for confirmations since the original documents were dated 2008. atk has responded and denies nothing.

as someone pointed out....the taxpayers are on the loosing end....being paid less than market value, and atk is gaining as the brass is goign back to thier supply line at reduced cost.

and no butch..no competition to me. just the opposite..the more they take out of circulation, the more i can charge for mine.

make the calls, sent the emails

htis is an money issue and the only thing that will work is to affect someones bottom line.

mike in co
( yes i was one of the grassroots voices that help fix the last brass issue...all scrap, no sales...took one week to fix.)
 
Mike ...

If I recall correctly, it's up to the Post or Base Commander's discretion of how he wants to handle the sales and who gets the money. Base Commanders believe it or not, have been given a lot of authority to decide or act according to their own judgment. They have a lot of freedom of choice and options at their disposal. That's why they're the Base Commander!

Get yourself up to speed on the rules by contacting these folks: The Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service at: http://www.drms.dla.mil/index.shtml. They should be able to tell you how things really work or are suppose to work today.

I dealt with them and a base C.O. when I ran a big tenant facility for the Defense Logistics Agency [DLA] on a Navy annex years ago. The base C.O. and I went round and round for awhile before he gave me the check DLA had a right to. He was a Navy O-6, I was a Navy O-5. Boy, did we have fun for a few weeks. Had to get the military lawyers involved as I remember. Art
 
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So if I understand, ATK has the ammo brass scredded and made into scrap metal. This is after they buy it at scrap metal prices versus buying at surplus ammo brass prices?

Maybe it should be sold at auction like most bases do for old furniture, office equipment, etc.

It would be interesting to see where this brass really goes.

Back in the old days at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma (Arizona) I think it funded some serious beer parties......he he
 
A friend sent me something on this earlier today, and one of the reasons ATK was giving to the base commanders was that selling usable brass would/could be assisting terrorists. Wonder how many terrorists buy milsurp brass and load their own?

ATK is saving money, and although I don't have a problem with the bases getting money if it's used for the troops and not to improve the officer's club, the fact that ATK is sidestepping the rules to make themselves more money irritates the daylights out of me.

Aside from that LC brass is amongst the best for loading for AR's. Harder than the hubs of Hades in the head and higher volume than most commercial cases.
 
AZLarry said:
It would be interesting to see where this brass really goes.
Click to expand...


atk sells/supplies it to the company they buy brass from to make case out of.....see the big issue is still money.

they under pay, furnish cheap brass to companies they buy from.....they get richer and the taxpayer gets the shaft again.


mike in co
 
a reply recd from atk( to another member that asked about what was going on).

"As a service to our military customers, we routinely handle demil operations for various munitions and respond to requests from military installations for reclamation and recycling of military items. Each contract is awarded through the military installation’s procurement process. The installations receive fair value for the brass."

talk abouty double speak and theft.
they furnish the machinery to destroy the brass...which lowers its value, and then pay submarket price for the brass.

the only "service" is as in bend over taxpayer.


the orginal questioner was telling them that his next purchases, planned for april, would be based on their answer....he is not buying atk based on the reply.

email
phone
stop this thieft from taxpayers

mike in co
 
We need your help

The figures don't lie.
Surplus brass sells for way more then scrap brass.
The differance will be made up by YOU the taxpayer''
 
Saw a u-tube vid. a few yrs. ago.
In Afghan. and Pakistan. Can't tell the difference. Anyway.
They would get the kids together. Truck them into old battle sites.
The kids would pick up old brass. Then they would be trucked back to Pakistan. There the kids would reload the old brass. Using hand held sizers and rocks. One kid would deprime. One kid would resize. One kid would prime....etc. 12-14 hrs a day.
Who knows where the ammo went????
The reporter has special permission. His mother was from there. He spoke the language and blended in. And he paid a lot of money not to get shot. To the local warlord.
they also made very good copies of famous guns. None had serial numbers.....
 
mike in co said:
ATK has been going around the auction process for once fired mil brass and buying direct from individual bases. they are paying less than market value of the brass as they are destroying the brass..and putting it back in thier supply line.


ATK is about 15 miles from my house. By mere coincidence, I was talking to a friend of mine last night at the gun club. He is a long time employee of ATK and works at their proving grounds. He had just bought a lot of brass cases from ATK as "scrap material". He explained to me that it was cheaper for ATK to buy scrap brass (not cartridge cases) from outside sources to make new brass cases than it was to deprime their own used brass (from testing) and melt it down to form new cases. Their used cases would have to be deprimed before melting down and that would make the process too expensive. So that blows a hole in your theory that they are buying used brass from bases to re-cycle into their own supply line. I see no reason to boycott ATK and all their subsidiary companies. :cool:
Click to expand...
 
Who Me? said:
mike in co said:
ATK has been going around the auction process for once fired mil brass and buying direct from individual bases. they are paying less than market value of the brass as they are destroying the brass..and putting it back in thier supply line.


ATK is about 15 miles from my house. By mere coincidence, I was talking to a friend of mine last night at the gun club. He is a long time employee of ATK and works at their proving grounds. He had just bought a lot of brass cases from ATK as "scrap material". He explained to me that it was cheaper for ATK to buy scrap brass (not cartridge cases) from outside sources to make new brass cases than it was to deprime their own used brass (from testing) and melt it down to form new cases. Their used cases would have to be deprimed before melting down and that would make the process too expensive. So that blows a hole in your theory that they are buying used brass from bases to re-cycle into their own supply line. I see no reason to boycott ATK and all their subsidiary companies. :cool:
Click to expand...

what atk is by your house...its more than 15 companies.
nice reply but it is actually what they said,,,,,

remember we are talking mil cases....and bs on the have to deprime to smelt...primers are brass!

what scrap brass are they buying ? cartridge brass is basically a 70/30 alloy and is sold as cartridge brass......so they pay extra for pure brass and alloy it up themselves ???...not likely

now maybe nickle plated primers are an issue...but none of my scrap buyers have an issue with primed brass.

so either you dont pay taxes , you make so much money you don't care that taxpayers are getting screwed on this deal or ??

so come up with another story....

mike in co
Click to expand...
 
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Git him Mike.

"Who Me"
Read this.
According to Marbut, ATK/Alliant Techsystems has encouraged military base commanders to sell their used cartridge brass directly to ATK. The brass is then demilled and rendered down to scrap metal for use in ATK’s future new cartridge production. Marbut states: “ATK even provides portable equipment to demil tons of cartridge cases at the military installations, destroying the brass for reloading purposes.
Source.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/03/military-fired-brass-being-reduced-to-scrap-metal-again/
 
i applaude the efforts of the ila. they have stature in dc.

what irates me is that this has been going on for two years or more and once again it is the guy in the the street that brings it to thier attention.

this is the same with the osha backdoor attempt at stopping sales/transportation of primers awhile back. nra/ila missed it but did claim a victory afterwards.

i guess i'm naive..i expect them to know first. my opinon is that they spend so much time "politicing" that no monitoring/research is done.

they originally were against the heller case going to court.


mike in co
 
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