Trying new powders . . . . involuntarily

M

Montana Pete

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I knew many popular powders would be hard to find, so when I went to a big-box gun counter today, I had a list of five powders suited to both 22-250 and 243 -- I told the clerk to give me a one-lb. cannister of each one he had in stock. Here was my list.

Varget
Reloder 19
IMR 4895
IMR 3031
IMR 4320

Here was what they could come up with. Just the last two-- IMR 3031 and IMR 4320.

They told me Varget was "impossible to get."

They were totally out of ALL rifle primers, although they had a good selection of pistol primers and plenty of shotshell primers. The manager said that primers were "almost impossible to get."

I selected all "stick" powders and avoided "ball" powders because I have 1000 large standard rifle primers and am fresh out of the magnum primers. I didn't want to go nuts trying to hunt down magnum primers when they are not to be found.

Of the powders I got, the IMR 3031 is prominently featured in my circa 1975 Hornady reloading book, but not in more recent books. In the old manual, this powder is apparently one of the "preferred" powders for both the 22-250 and the 243. At least, it is at or near the top.

Likewise, IMR 4320 is featured prominently as a "main powder" for the afore mentioned calibers in the 1975 edition of the Hornady manual, but ignored in the new Speer manual.

I suspect the reason I was able to get these powders is that they are "old" powders that grandpa liked. Probably few customers ask for them. Varget or Reloder 19 are newer, and more in tune with preferences of the current generation.

I am planning to use up these cannisters loading target ammo this summer. I will be interested to see what kind of groups I get.

Is anyone an old-timer who likes or knows well the IMR 3031 and IMR 4320? Let me know if they are okay.
 
Hornady #7 lists.........

#4320, 87 V-Max, oal 2.640" 36.9 MAX. (.243)
" " 50 V-Max, oal2.350" 36.6 MAX. (.22-250)

Nothing in this manual for 3031 in those weights, in those ctgs. :D
 
4320 is my favorite for 150 grain bullets for the .303.
3031 was developed early in WW1 specifically for use by the British as an alternative propellant for the .303 and the first three numbers are a reminder of its origin.

The 4320 powder gives fine accuracy and very little fouling but it generates a hair more pressure than I'd be comfortable with in some old Enfields. My No.4 has been upgraded with a new bolt body and No.3 bolthead, and its bore carefully leather lapped to mirror brightness so I've had no problems with it.
The 3031 Powder is formulated to duplicate the original .303 British pressure range and velocity with bullets of 175-180 gr so it is about as good as they come for building safe handloads for older rifles in this range.
I plan to use 3031 for taylored loads in the 1915 Enfield I'm restoring.

Both powders are used in .308 loads with some success. The 3031 powder should be useful for tayloring moderate pressure full power loads for some of the less strong Milsurp .308/7.62 rifles such as the Spanish Mauser or Indian Enfield 2A rifles.

Some more modern 7.62 rifles don't operate that well when US Mil Spec 7.62 Nato or commercial equivalents loaded with Ball Powder are used, so taylored loads using IMR can be of benefit for these rifles.
My experiance with the FN FAL is limited but I remember the tendency of the rifles I have fired to warp the rim of ejected rounds due to excessive gas port pressures ans cases becoming stuck due to carbon build up when Ball Powder is used. The FN is generally hard on cases anyway but the damaged rims made any attempt to reload fruitless.
The same factors are almost certainly the cause of stuck cases and torn off rims in the AR series rifles in 5.56mm.
I find it mystifying that our military would continue to use Ball Powder when the Australian defense Industries Thales group has developed excellent IMR type single base powders for all NATO rifle cartridges. Politics and false economy I would say, Bean Counters don't die when they make mistakes, better men than they will ever be pay the price in blood.
 
There's nothing wrong with IMR 3031 or IMR 4320 in the 22/250 and 243.

My 1961 Speer manual (Number 5) lists loads of 33 to 35 grains of 3031 and 36.5 to 38.5 gr of 4320 with 55 gr bullets in the 22/250.

For the 243 Speer lists 32 to 36 gr of 3031 and 36 to 40 gr of 4320 with 80 grain bullets.

The 1978 Sierra manual lists 34.3 gr of 3031 and 36.2 gr of 4320 as maximum loads in the 22/250 with 55 gr bullets.

For the 243, Sierra's maximum loads are 37.5 gr of 3031 and 39.2 gr of 4320 with 85 gr bullets.

There are better, more efficient powders for these cartridges but you have to use what you can get now in times of scarcity. IMR 3031 and 4320 will work for you.
 
One thing to watch out for should you consider using pull down powders because of shortages.
Years ago I was given several hundred rounds of 7.62 Nato ammunition by a friend who asked me to use my inertial puller to pull the bullets so he could use the cases and bullets for some custom loads, I was to keep the powder and see if it was suitable for .303 handloads since we both had just started building loads for the .303. This was when quality boxer primed milsurp .303 first started to show up so cases had become available. Before that only overly expensive commercial .303 or old berdan primed milsurp so handloading for this caliber wasn't that common around here.

Anyway the 7.62 ammo was headstamped FNM and though it may have been decent ammo when fresh these showed some spots of corrosion on many of the cases and some peeling off of the gilding metal.

I put the powder in a steel powder can and set it aside for several months while I was out of state on business.
When I returned I found that the entire lower half of the steel can had turned to red dust and every steel item in that storage area was heavily rusted and pitted.
The powder was flat black square flake powder which I'm told was of a type used to load the 7.65 Argentine Mauser cartridge.

After the salvaged cases were cleaned my friend found that while the corroded spots looked smal and only on the surface there were pin holes in those spots that went completely through the side walls. The gilding metal continued to peel off the bullet jackets exposing the steel jacket underneath.
We discarded the entire lot, even those cases and bullets that did not show any visible damage yet.

I may have one of the cases here, if I find it I'll post the headstamp and year so you can be aware that at least some of it may be dangerously degraded.

On the otherhand I obtained the bullets and powder from several hundred rounds of what I believe to be Chinese 7.62X54 that proved to be very useful.
The bullets measured .3125 which apparently is a bit larger dia than is common for this round. The powder is a silvery colored ball type powder that resembled AA 2520 to the eye.
The .303 loads I made up with these bullets and powder used a charge weight near identical to the charge weight of the 4320 loads using the Hornady .312 150 grain bullet.
I have the exact weight written down somewhere along with the weight of charges thrown by my Lee powder dippers using this powder. I weighed all the charges I loaded but use the dippers to fill the pan. I marked each powder type used down by highest and lowest weight thrown from ten weighed from each dipper. The Chinese powder was very consistent.
Loads using this powder were very nearly as accurate as those using 4320.
There was less fouling than I expected but there seemed to be a silvery gray residue that may have been graphite.

The steel Berdan primed cases were used to make up some very light hunting loads for a sporterized Mosin Nagant carbine belonging to a friend. Powder used was Winchester 760 with the same Hornady .312 I use for my .303 loads.
The light loads turned out to be unexpectedly accurate especially since the bore of the Mosin Nagant looked like a sewer pipe and had badly worn rifling and so much pitting that I was very leery of shooting it at all.

Salvaged powders can be excellent to abysmal. Bullets if not exposed to caustic vapors or otherwise damaged can be used safely a century after manufacture if necessary.
Military bullets can and usually do vary greatly in diameter according to country of manufacture.
7.62 Russian caliber bullets can vary as much as .005 in diameter from one lot to another and .303 British ammo can be found with bullets ranging from .310 to .312.

Another thing to look out for when using military powders is a tendency for fouling to creep back into the chamber neck and often the shoulder area under pressure.
Ball powder carbon fouling when it mixes with atomized lead from exposed bullet bases and graphite and residue of other additives and deterents can look for all the world like clean shiny steel to the unpracticed eye.

A chamber neck fouled with hardened Ball powder fouling can usually be spoted by sooty smudges on the neck of a fired case. The resilient surface of the fouling allows more and more gas leakage as it builds up.

When the fouling becomes thick enough it constricts the case neck on firing and causes increasingly higher chamber pressures which again increases the amount of fouling pushed back into the neck area. When thick enough the fouling simply pushes past the neck forcing older fouling further into the chamber.

I know Bench Rest shooters are alot more vigilant about keeping there rifles clean than most shooters so the members here aren't likely to let their rifles get that dirty, but I've cleaned up dozens of older military and sporting rifles that had heavily fouled chambers because far to many shooters don't realize that the worst fouling is the slicked down more or less evenly deposited stuff thats not obvious to the naked eye.

I've used brass or copper tubes cut to form saw toothed scrappers to remove the thickest fouling from chamber necks. Even after plugging the chamber and letting it soak for days or even weeks the fouling comes out in streamers like black plastic or in some cases looks like pencil lead shavings.

I got the idea of the home made scrappers from the US Calvary having used a chamber cleaning scrapper with the Spencer Carbines. The scrapper they used was made like a chambering reamer only made from Bronze instead of steel. During a hard fought battle if a carbine began to have trouble chambering a round the trooper would pour water in the chamber and mechanism then run the scrapper into the chamber and give it a few twists, then resume firing.

I've used a Garand chamber brush for less pernicious fouling. I cut off its geared base and JB welded it into an old cleaning rod section. I then put this in an antique hand cranked drill and turn it slowly while spraying solvent into the chamber, stopping every so often to swab out the chamber until clean.

Some rifles I've cleaned up look to have had tens of thousands of rounds fired through them with no thought given to proper cleaning or of cleaning the chamber at all.
 
Montana Pete, I see your in Wisconsin, I have a few pounds of rel 15, 19, and 22, and one or two pounds of imr4350, and a few others which I would have to check on. can't remember off the top of my head what is on the shelves.. I also have a few thousand Fed 215 primers. If you want to check with me on Monday am by phone, I could set somthing aside for you.

Store info is on my homepage, www.centershotrifles.com
Jim
 
I gave up on Varget and went with R15. It is about same size as Varget, and similar burn rate. Depending on burn rate chart, one will be faster than the other. Lots of reloading data for R15.

Primers, I shop around and find some at the small town gun shops I visit.

IMR hasn't been too bad to find here in Dallas area. Mainly, Varget and primers are hard to find.

IMR 4320 is between 4064 and 4350, R15 may work here as well, or other medium-slow powder. I didn't think 4320 was a very popular powder, because it isn't as flexible as 4064.

3031 should work well in light bullets with .22-250. Hodgson site lists 40gr bullet loads with IMR 3031 at 4100fps. Hodgdon site covers IMR, Hodgdon and Winchester powders. www.hodgdon.com

Not reloaded .243, but R19 I have seen for loads. Going to one of the powder manufs, there are burn rate charts to give you some comparison of the different brands and powders.
 
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