Theoben Accuracy Problem May Be Solved

D

Dave Shattuck

Guest
As many of you may have read, I have been having one heck of a time with my new AZ built Theoben MFR. When I first got my new gun in April I had great expectations as to what type of accuracy the gun would be capable of, so it was easy to attribute most of my consistencys to either my inexperience with air guns, or the fact that I was still using Theoben's factory stock when shooting from the bench, and thus was having a great amount of Rocking-N'-Rolling occuring from shot to shot.

Then, to my delight, a few weeks ago my new Gary Lemons benchrest stock finally arrived and not only looked fantastic, but also eliminated 100% of the instability from the gun. Now, the problem became that I could see what was going on, didn't like what I saw, and now needed to figure out what was causing it.

Last week for the first time I tore everything other than the regulator apart and found nothing that would seem to be causing my problem, but hoped that just by doing what I had done would ...could ...might have eliminated it. Well, it didn't!

At last Saturday's match though something did become blatantly obvious as my problem appeared to be more physical than mechanical. What I mean by this is: the gun would shoot several shots in a row landing within a reasonable area of the target, then, for no apparent reason, the shots would start landing 2 or even 3 points out, but all were either in the exact same spot, or at least along the same line, for example, out at 5:30.

Upon my return home my first guess was that the Leupold 36X I had been using had turned to crap when adjusted down for 25Y and had started allowing a POI shift. Easy fix, so I swapped it off for a 6X Weaver T-6 that adjusted down to 20Y and went from there .... but with the exact same results. So, I now knew it wasn't the scope. Back to tearing everything apart again, but this time with one major difference: I also slugged the bore of my barrel!

I had shied away from slugging before because of hearing about how sensitive these barrels are to running a brush or rod through them as the metals used are so much softer than the ones used for making rimfire and centerfire barrels. Had I slugged my bore initially I would have found what I was looking for.

After running just 3 pellets (one CPH and 2 Kodiaks) through the full length of my bore it was obvious even without magnification that there was a section of shiny, freshly exposed lead being cut away between two of the grooves, and that the shaved area had simply been laid over rather than taken off. So, where was this happening?

I next just pushed a pellet far enough into the chamber to go past the port, then carefully removed it by running my rod in from the muzzle end, and sure enough, there is was. So, to make sure that it was the porting and not something in the chamber, I now pushed a pellet in only far enough for the head to pass over the port, but for the skirt to only enter the chamber ...and the head was shaved, but the skirt was not.

It seems that when my barrel was ported through to the bore no one had bothered to lap the burr that was created out of the bore, and thus this flap of metal is still sticking up into the bore and is not only shaving some of the lead from the underside of my pellets heads, but also from their skirt as well, and then leaving that piece of shaved off lead hanging from the backside of the pellet Not very good for maintaining any kind of shot-to-shot consistency as what this is doing is two-fold: it not only throws off the pellet balance, but it also will allow blow-by of the air pressure to go out in front of the pellet when the trigger is pulled, and, on top of that, will create an area of turbulance right in front of the bore for the pellet to exit into, especially if you have a shrouded barrel like mine.

So, if you are experiencing an inconsistency that you are unable to resolve ....remove your barrel and check the porting for burrs.

By the way, the barrel on my Theoben is a Walther .177 FAC 16mm Bull Barrel.
 
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Great news!

Glad to hear you appear to have resolved your problem! I am a little surprised that a issue like this made it through Theoban and a tuning! Hopefully this will help others in the future! Perhaps you could contact Theoban and let them know something like this slipped by them.
 
Be careful when dealing with AZ

This goes to show that AZ DOES NOT!!! do to these guns what he says he does when he is selling you one over the phone. He told me he fired 700 rounds through each gun before he shipped them. This story proves he's less than truthful to deal with. He told me several other false stories about my gun BEFORE HE SHIPPED IT. I would suggest you get it in writing when dealing with AZ. I would never deal with him again.
 
Norm, My two AZ Theoben's had a Match barrel put on by AZ. Dave's was also a Match barrel. I am not sure if the barrel's transfer port, crown etc were done by Walther, Theoben, or AZ. My guess if done by either factory the crown, transfer port would have been blued. Why when he mills the scope rail he doesn't even cold blue that. I wouldn't mind how it looks if it shoots well. My $400.00 Walther shoots better groups indoors than both Rapids.
Paul
 
Paul,

I just finished cleaning all the lead out of my bore, and off of the burr. Believe it or not, the damn thing's so obvious that all you need do is look down the barrel, even without magnification ...and there it is. Even though on the pellets it only showed up between one set of grooves, it covers three, the full diameter of the porting. Gee, I wonder why my gun was sending fliers down the range? It's a wonder I could even hit the bull every once in a while, let alone with consecutive shots.

Dave
 
Well I guess you could always go to the original source http://www.bentaylorandson.co.uk/ in merry old England and see what they have to offer. I really hope you both get all your issues worked out so you can start helping me with all mine hehe j/k :D
 
The MFR's use to and may still come with a turned down barrel from Theoben. These barrels are 13mm unless specified when ordering to a full diameter rapid barrel which is the 16mm barrel. There is no extra charge for the full diameter barrel when ordering from Theoben. The question lies did our rifles come with the turned down barrel and why didn't we get the original barrel back if it did.

Theoben put these barrels on to save weight and some thought there might be a harmonic issue which they found there really wasn't but folks opted to use the 16mm barrels instead of the 13mm.

Dave, I'm happy to see you found the problem, and hope it gets resolved quickly.

Take Care,
Joe .
 
Great. I bought a barely used AZ Rapid that arrived yesterday, after finding I was pretty far down the waiting list at PAG. It seemed to shoot ok with whatever air was in it when it arrived(took 1/2 an hour to fill it with a pump after shooting an AGBR target and a few groups last night.), but you guys have me nervous now. I'm hoping to get up to the scuba shop tomorrow to get my tanks filled, and I've got gauges on the way from Airhogs to replace the ones FedEX mangled on my pump and tank. I hope I get everything back in time to shoot it some before I head out of town on Fri.
Todd
 
Dave,
Hopefully all your detective work has payed off and is useful to anyone else suffering with accuracy issues from a AZ prepped Theoben.
I wonder if you could back charge for pellets,air and time lost problem solving a professionally tuned gun.;)
Doug
 
Todd, i wouldn't get nervous. Each rifle is different as you know. Lets hope it's shoots good. I just received my springer from Steve at POA, and it's a shooter.

He's expecting rifles soon, I believe they have been shipped to the importer. So hopefully you will have it soon.


Joe
 
I'm happy for you that you found the probable issue.
I feel for you in that you spent so much to get the very best that money can buy and instead got poor craftsmanship. I think the 700 rounds claim is baloney. Maybe he did that back when he was establishing himself and less busy. If you asked me now I'd rather a Rapid gone thru by Doug Shea than AZ. Alan has been doing those rifles for along time but all the experience in the world wont help if hes pounding um out too quick and getting lax.
 
Joe,
I'm stuck with this one for now. I have to call Steve and cancel my order today. When I was talking to him a while back, he did mention that he fixed AZ guns from time to time...
 
Before we go and climb all over AZ too badly, I want to say that even though I have every right to be pissed, I'm not!

When putting everything into perspective I think AZ was, and still is, under a great amount of pressure, which interprets to distraction, and I just happened to land on "the list" at the wrong time! There were a multitude of things that were, and still are, going on in AZ's life away from his gunsmithing. Some would call them excuses, but I'm trying to look at them for what they really are.

Back around Thanksgiving when a lot of us were ordering our AZ built guns he was in the midst of packing everything up and moving his family, and business, from Indiana to Iowa lock, stock and barrel. He asked that we delay our ordering for a few weeks, which we did. Then, before he even had a chance to settle, the orders started flowing in. And, of course, to go along with the timing, there was a problem of some sort with a lot of the guns that were showing up from the importer's, meaning those had to go back ....to England.... mine being one of them, causing even more of a delay. And, upon there return there was an additional delay due to the importer being ill which caused the loss of another couple of weeks bringing everything to a real head.

Once the guns did came in he was so backlogged, more like what he would expect in mid-season, not during the off-season, that there was a whole lot of additional pressure from just trying to get caught up. And then, once the guns were ready to ship, there was an aditional delay due to a problem with UPS that had been unforeseen. AZ had promised us that we would have our guns in plenty of time to get settled with them before our matches started in April, meaning, in his words, we should have expected them no later than late February, early March. I got mine the second week of April.

He is still under a tremendous amount of pressure as when he and his family arrived in Iowa they were renting a brand new house that was remaining on the market, meaning he knew he would have to uproot everything once again, but thought he would be given a little advanced notice before having to do so. In the meantime he was looking for a piece of land that he could buy to build a home of his own on. And, I guess he found it.

The problem now became that the house where they were living up and sold, but nobody bothered to tell the Zasadny's until 3 weeks before they had to be out, which was by May 31st. I guess the time between then and now has been basically spent finding another home, moving into it, finding a temporary place to relocate his business in to, clearing the lot and arranging for all the next steps before starting the building process. What this interprets to for us is delay, Delay, DELAY!

I wish he and his family well and hold no hard feelings toward what happened. And the answer to your question is: YES, I MOST DEFINITELY WOULD BUY ANOTHER GUN THROUGH ALLEN! I just think that next time I would wait until after he gets his life more in order before buying.

Dave
 
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