The World's Most accurate Rimfire Rifle!!!!

T

tonykharper

Well-known member
Back in 2008 a certain person claimed to have built the world's most accurate rimfire rifle.

All the experts of the time immediate declared the claimant nuts. Some were kinder than others.

The same would happen today if such a claim was made.

I don't even know how one would determine what is the world's most accurate rimfire rifle, but I do find the "rest of the story" interesting.

This is a thread from back in the day to confirm such a claim was made. http://forums.delphiforums.com/smallbore/messages/96/1

The rifle in question was Black Death. (I've always hated that name, but it is, what it is.)

View attachment 25207

The gunsmith is of course Bill Calfee.

Those of you that may not be familiar with Black Death this rifle currently owns the ARA Indoor Nationals record. (2416.67 agg.) and has won numerous National level tournaments.

Black Death is currently owned and operated by Mike Sherrill.

I don't know if Black Death is truly the World's most accurate rimfire rifle, but it has certainly had a winning career in RFBR.

After 14 years I think Bill gets the last laugh in the debate.

TKH (4628)
 
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You do know under Wilbur’s instruction, due to predictable emotional outcomes that name has been expressly forbidden on this site?
 
tim said:
You do know under Wilbur’s instruction, due to predictable emotional outcomes that name has been expressly forbidden on this site?
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Tim,

I have not heard that. Please send me a link and I'll take down my post (s).

TKH (4628)
 
tonykharper said:
Tim,

I have not heard that. Please send me a link and I'll take down my post (s).

TKH (4628)
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Howdy Tony,

He won't find such a link because there is not one.

Furthermore, he's posted on at least one other thread where you mentioned Bill, and Black Death, multiple times, and that thread had been up for years now. And he survived it.

The "predictable emotional outcome" to "that name" came in less than an hour after you started this thread. He got "triggered", but he will be ok.

Please, continue with your thread as I always learn something whenever you post. I'm sure others do, too!

Take care,

Greg
 
404tbang said:
Howdy Tony,

He won't find such a link because there is not one.

Furthermore, he's posted on at least one other thread where you mentioned Bill, and Black Death, multiple times, and that thread had been up for years now. And he survived it.

The "predictable emotional outcome" to "that name" came in less than an hour after you started this thread. He got "triggered", but he will be ok.

Please, continue with your thread as I always learn something whenever you post. I'm sure others do, too!

Take care,

Greg
Click to expand...

Greg,

Thanks for the information and the encouragement.

I enjoy this site and would never do anything to hurt the site or upset the membership.

But what I posted is truthful, and accurate.

TKH (4628)
 
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It is pretty much a given if Mike attends a match, and brings out his good ammo, he will be in the hunt.
No. Ifs. Ands. Or buts.
There are couple others who also come to mind.
 
404tbang said:
Howdy Tony,

He won't find such a link because there is not one.

Furthermore, he's posted on at least one other thread where you mentioned Bill, and Black Death, multiple times, and that thread had been up for years now. And he survived it.

The "predictable emotional outcome" to "that name" came in less than an hour after you started this thread. He got "triggered", but he will be ok.

Please, continue with your thread as I always learn something whenever you post. I'm sure others do, too!

Take care,

Greg
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Really, Wilbur expressly forbid it after he banned him, in spite of your enduring suckhole status.
It is the impetus for how the “ WLM” got coined.The name without the name. Nobody got “triggered” because frankley,I woul’nt p..s in his mouth if his gums were on fire.
I have posted on Tony’s threads that have been both informational and historic.
“Last laugh” now starts to get promotional.

Now Wilbur is gone…..Elmer may or may not continue the policy, but it has been the policy in spite of wide latitude.
 
Eidolon said:
It is pretty much a given if Mike attends a match, and brings out his good ammo, he will be in the hunt.
No. Ifs. Ands. Or buts.
There are couple others who also come to mind.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt anybody would dispute that.
 
tim said:
Really, Wilbur expressly forbid it after he banned him, in spite of your enduring suckhole status.
It is the impetus for how the “ WLM” got coined.The name without the name. Nobody got “triggered” because frankley,I woul’nt p..s in his mouth if his gums were on fire.
I have posted on Tony’s threads that have been both informational and historic.
“Last laugh” now starts to get promotional.

Now Wilbur is gone…..Elmer may or may not continue the policy, but it has been the policy in spite of wide latitude.
Click to expand...

Howdy Tim,

Looky there.......you failed to post the link Tony requested, and dodged Tony in the process.....

I've got stuff to do tonight, but I'll try to get back in a day or two and show you the errors that are self evident in your post.

I have no interest in turning this into something other than what Tony has to say, so I'll prove you wrong and likely be done with it, ok?

Have a good night,

Greg
 
tim said:
You do know under Wilbur’s instruction, due to predictable emotional outcomes that name has been expressly forbidden on this site?
Click to expand...


Black Death?? Is it like the plague? ;)

Hi Tony, please carry on.


Ken Henderson
 
TangoTwo said:
Black Death?? Is it like the plague? ;)

Hi Tony, please carry on.


Ken Henderson
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Ken,

When I started this thread I had just a couple of points I wanted to make. I now realize they aren't going to be popular for many reasons.

But here they are.

First: Mr. Calfee was either brave or foolish announcing he had created (or what he thought was) the most accurate RFBR rifle in the world.

The link I posted proves he actually made that claim in 2006.

Here we are 16 years later, and that rifle holds the ARA indoor Nationals record. (2416.67 agg) .

The rifle is basically the same as Bill built it. It still has the same barrel, and its configuration is exactly the same.

This does not speak well for all the claims of RFBR accuracy advancement. Have we really advanced?

It is true more high scores are being posted by a larger number of different shooters. This only proves more shooters have access to better equipment.

The other point is the myth that Calfee's success as a rifle builder was only because of the quality of shooters that shoot his rifles.

Now being one of those shooters I would like to claim all the credit for my success. But the truth is without the rifles (and ammo) it would have never happened.

When Bill sold, what he thought was the "Worlds most accurate RFBR rifle" to Allen Bates, Bill did know Allen from Adam.

He put that rifle in his hands not because he thought Allen could make it a success, but because he thought the rifle would make Allen a success. And it did.

When Bill sent me Tack Driver, he didn't know me. Actually, very few people Bill made rifles for were well known shooters.

Jeff Patterson is following this same path. Look at the names on the list of 13 J=Pat SPEC rifles. Only a few are well known shooters.

This story holds a very important place in the history of RFBR shooting. I hope it isn't lost, or rewritten, by those that can't handle the truth.

I believe everything I've written to be truthful and accurate. If anyone can prove it wrong, please post it here.

TKH (4628)
 
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Tony,
With all due respect, you might be cherry picking a bit.
First off, BC has made many many statements about many areas of the sport, usually self promotional, often, regrettably motivated by debasing others.
There is no doubt this is a wonderful gun, driven by a top flight shooter, with great ammo.
It/he has accomplished much, no doubt, that single record…..the stars align, etc.etc.
He has waxed on and on about rimfire advancement or the lack there of, mirrored here.
Let’s maybe look at that for a moment.
If you look at top scores across the board, across multiple disciplines , if you look at average scores, if you look at top scores with actions relatively new(ish) to the sport that BC constantly, denagrates, that sir,I would call advancement.
If you look at ammo…today, the AVERAGE, better than ever, the best, better, and more than ever.
If you look at triggers, better. Look at barrels in particular, better across the board.
If you look at the broader number of match winners indoor outdoor….bigger.
These things I would say represent advancement across the board.
You and I are both IR50/50 participants. Look at sporter scores at larger matches over recent years and the shear numbers of 250’s. Advancements in equipment, ammo, and shooter ability, which, I am sure you would agree, all MUST work in combination.
 
tim said:
Tony,
With all due respect, you might be cherry picking a bit.
First off, BC has made many many statements about many areas of the sport, usually self promotional, often, regrettably motivated by debasing others.
There is no doubt this is a wonderful gun, driven by a top flight shooter, with great ammo.
It/he has accomplished much, no doubt, that single record…..the stars align, etc.etc.
He has waxed on and on about rimfire advancement or the lack there of, mirrored here.
Let’s maybe look at that for a moment.
If you look at top scores across the board, across multiple disciplines , if you look at average scores, if you look at top scores with actions relatively new(ish) to the sport that BC constantly, denagrates, that sir,I would call advancement.
If you look at ammo…today, the AVERAGE, better than ever, the best, better, and more than ever.
If you look at triggers, better. Look at barrels in particular, better across the board.
If you look at the broader number of match winners indoor outdoor….bigger.
These things I would say represent advancement across the board.
You and I are both IR50/50 participants. Look at sporter scores at larger matches over recent years and the shear numbers of 250’s. Advancements in equipment, ammo, and shooter ability, which, I am sure you would agree, all MUST work in combination.
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Tim,

Thank you for your response. I see where you are coming from.

Promotion has always been and will always be part of a producer's way to get their product out.

Yea, I know many don't like how some choose to do it. I'm frankly sick and tired of that damn pillow guy on TV all day every day.

I certainly agree better equipment is more widely available to more shooters than in the past and our shooters have become more competent.

It takes an accurate rifle to improve a shooter's abilities.

But there are other factors you haven't mentioned.

The number of matches taking place, and the condition those matches are shot.

Would you argue shooting at 7 PM on flat ground is the same as shooting in the mountains at 10 AM?

RFBR has migrated south and west. At one time most matches were held in mountain country, that is no longer true.

The number of indoor matches vs outdoor matches.

I think we both remember a time when only a few matches were held at the barn in NC, and even fewer held at Piney Hill, Va.

Those venues can't compare to the ranges at Chickenfoot, or the new building at Kettlefoot. Not only do we have more ranges available they are better ranges to shoot.

I do disagree about ammo. I don't think the ammo today is anywhere near as good as what one could find just last year in the case of Lapua, or since 2014 in Eley.

Yes, there has been some good lot numbers from both, but most of it is picked over before the average shooter gets a chance to test it.

Now I've said this I realize it is a useless discussion. Neither of us can do much to change the situation.

I think Black Death is a rare rifle, perhaps not to be equaled in my time. But then, I hold all Calfee SPEC rifles as special.

I know of no other series of rifles with the accomplishments achieved with these rifles in RFBR.

My hope is Jeff Patterson's Spec rifles prove to be as good or better. We will have to wait to see.

The business model most of our talented gunsmiths use, is to receive an order, and build to whatever specs the customer wants.

The Calfee SPEC rifles and now the J-Pat SPEC rifles have a different approach. They are building to their own SPECs. If a customer wants one, he gets on the list.

I believe this has a lot to do with the success of Calfees SPEC rifles.

The sad part is Calfee no longer builds and Jeff has said he is only doing the 13 already on order.

This is the time for someone else to step up.

Hope to see you on a range come summer.

TKH (4628)
 
Tony,

I am not sure what qualifies as the most accurate rifle, the amount of tournament wins or the ARA Indoor aggregate over a number of years. Personally, I feel the most accurate rifle is the rifle that has placed the highest ARA indoor aggregate over a few years.

I think you misspoke, unless I did not go back far enough in the ARA records, that Black Death holds the ARA Indoor aggregate record. If I am not mistaken, Chuck Morrell holds that record with his rifle with a 2403+ aggregate.

There have only been 4 yearly ARA Indoor aggregates over 2350, the highest yearly indoor aggregate I could find for Black Death was 2297+.

Tom
 
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Tom W said:
Tony,

I am not sure what qualifies as the most accurate rifle, the amount of tournament wins or the ARA Indoor aggregate over a number of years. Personally, I feel the most accurate rifle is the rifle that has placed the highest ARA indoor aggregate over a few years.

I think you misspoke, unless I did not go back far enough in the ARA records, that Black Death holds the ARA Indoor aggregate record. If I am not mistaken, Chuck Morrell holds that record with his rifle with a 2403+ aggregate.

There have only been 4 yearly ARA Indoor aggregates over 2350, the highest yearly indoor aggregate I could find for Black Death was 2297+.

Tom
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Tom,

I don't know if one can determine what is or would be the World's Most accurate rimfire rifle. There are just so many ways to look at it.

The unique thing I was pointing out was Black Death is an old rifle that has been around forever and still holding it's on against all comers.

I should have said ARA Indoor Nationals record. That is quite different from the annual ARA Indoor aggregate record.

I think you quite correct that Chuck owns that one with a really outstanding score.

Mike's (Black Death) National's record was an agg. of 2416.67.

Good to see you post here. We need your experience and expertise.

TKH (4628)
 
Records: For a single 6 card agg I believe it is Phil Dorman's 2491.67. The nats are a single 6 card agg. For a season, it is Chuck Morrell's 2403.7162. Depending on your criteria for determining "The most accurate rifle" either of these would be a better fit than black death that holds the nats record.
 
Jerry H said:
Records: For a single 6 card agg I believe it is Phil Dorman's 2491.67. The nats are a single 6 card agg. For a season, it is Chuck Morrell's 2403.7162. Depending on your criteria for determining "The most accurate rifle" either of these would be a better fit than black death that holds the nats record.
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Jerry,

Calfee's claim was made in 2008 long before the accomplishments of Chuck or Phils.

As for what is the current "World's most accurate RFBR rifle" many could claim that title depending on the criteria used.

I don't think we will ever know if Calfee was right when he made the claim or is it still true today.

Chucks stories need to be told one day. It is certainly inspirational for anyone having sight difficulties. I just can't figure out how to write it.

Chuck takes no quarter nor gives any quarter. I would hate to say anything that he may take exception to.

You mentioned Phil Dorman's 6 card agg. of 2491.67. That is an amazing agg. As I recall, it came right out of the blue.

Could you share other details about the rifle and its history?

TKH (4628)
 
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Phil's single agg was 2491.67. I think you mistyped. I don't know Phil or anything about his rifle. The rumor was that he shot it with the identical lot of Midas+ that Chuck was using at the time. There are times when everything just comes together. The long term performance of a rifle/barrel is more indicative of how "great" something is/was. Black death could still be the best if one looked at the multi year scores.
 
Jerry H said:
Phil's single agg was 2491.67. I think you mistyped. I don't know Phil or anything about his rifle. The rumor was that he shot it with the identical lot of Midas+ that Chuck was using at the time. There are times when everything just comes together. The long term performance of a rifle/barrel is more indicative of how "great" something is/was. Black death could still be the best if one looked at the multi year scores.
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Jerry,

You are right I mis typed. Can't even blame auto correct.

I don't think what is the "Most Accurate RFBR in the World " even matters much.

It is all in what happens on the day, and as you said, day after day after day.

Anything can happen once in RFBR.

Perhaps that is what keeps us coming back we know, or at least hope, any day could be our day.

I have heard of very old position rifles still performing. You just don't often see it in RFBR.

TKH (4628)
 
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