SUHL 150 Trouble shooting

S

STBE Harris

Guest
Howdy all

I have been over at the RFC forum and would like to get more info on a SUHL 150. It is a joint project between a friend and I. It is not shooting well .8 + groups at 50 yds not counting some really out of group flyers with Lapua Master, Eley Target Rifle and Wolf, Lapua SK and American match shells 711B. It has been shot against control rifles 64MPR Annie, CZ's and Russian target rifles and found wanting for groups so it is not conditions or the nuts behind the trigger. I have cleaned the rifle's barrel with a good solvent after it still showed bad groups after a lot of testing. The barrel feels tight ot patching and the muzzle is even and concentric under a 10Xloupe. The center stock bolt was able to touch the bolt and bind it up so we put a temp fix washer under it to keep it from touching the bolt , RFC has stickys about bolt, firing pin and spring that made me think to check the fired cases and they show very light strikes, however it has always fired no FTF. I would like to get your input. From the sticky there is some explanation about the firing pin position in the bolt being absolutlely critical to wear and function. I do not want to take this apart and not have the right info and detailed and comprehendable info on how to check this spec and tolerance and how to set it if it is off and assembly. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks STBE
 
How is it bedded?

As far as the bedding screw touching the bolt, it sounds like you have collapsed the stock. If you don't know how to take the bolt apart and clean it, take it to someone that does.
 
I suspect inconsistencies in the force of the firing pin strike. The bolt should be disassembled and throughly cleaned...possibly a new spring is required. If you don't feel comfortable doing this send it out to a reputable smith.

You didn't mention what your intentions for the rifle are .. position, benchrest? ... but you might consider restocking and bedding.

The Suhl is an accurate rifle that you want to get up to its full capabilities.

Best,
Michael
 
Suhl 150

For what it's worth: I bought one of the new Suhls and it would not shoot with any ammo. Group sizes about like yours. Looked at every thing, couldn't see any thing wrong. On a whim, I touched up the crown and it started shooting.

Bill
 
SUHL has original position stock

Our intentions are to put it in a BR stock and shoot for groups just for fun then maybe get serious about it later. Would like to do as much as we can on our own but if it has to be sent out or at least the bolt are there any gunsmiths that you suggest that know how to work on this rifle? Thanks STBE
 
Maybe someone here can do the bolt for you.

I have read the procedure and know there are a couple tricky spots. If I could see it done a couple times Id do mine. There is a small spring/detent ball that likes to get lost, as I remember.
 
Chuck . . .

Next time ya come UP to da Soo for our June match, I'll show ya how ta take that bolt apart.

Gona go to the NRA convention, eh. Luck guy: But, yer gona miss our May match.

Joe :)

2009YooperShoot.jpg
 
Joe

Can you give me any information on the disassembly and adjusting of the SUHL bolt? PM me you want to. Very interested in getting this rifle to shooting. Thanks STBE
 
STBE,
Take a look at the RFC Suhl stickies again. It really isn't too difficult.

Go to the "Suhl, Trigger, Bolt and Firing Pin sticky and then on the link to "Firing Pin Disassembly/Assembly Instructions". Here's the link:

Firing Pin Disassembly/Assembly Instructions

Look at the pics that Todd posted on the disassembled bolt.

For a spring replacement, the recommendation is the 1700 series Anschutz from Wolff Springs.

If you take your time, read the instructions a couple of times and record the measurements as suggested, you'll do just fine.

If you want, send me a PM and I'll give you my phone number.

Best,
Michael
 
More on the Suhl bolt assembly . . .

Mr. Harris:

Taking the bolt apart is straight forward. You just have to make sure you put it together the same way it came apart.

Dave Smith from Florida told me it is important to clean the inside of the bolt often. Dave sold me my first Grade 10 Suhl. He called me on the phone to tell me how to take the bolt apart. I also got information from Fred Jemison and a gunsmith from the Northeast.

1. Take the bolt out of the action.
2. Let down the firing pin. (While holding the bolt, twist the bolt handle to the left)
3. Turn the cap on the back of the bolt 1/4 turn to the left.
4. Remove the cap.
5. Slowly pull the firing pin assembly out of the bolt body.
6. Note the relation of the parts. (They gota go back the same way)
7. Don't loose the detent or it's spring. It's not under pressure, but could fall out.
8. Clean the inside of the bolt body with a brush and patches.
9. Clean the firing pin.
10. Reassemble dry, or clean with lighter fluid, let dry, then reassemble.
(The lighter fluid will leave a very lightly lubricated surface)

I don't think you should attempt to take the firing pin spring off the firing pin. That is best left to a competent rimfire gunsmith.

For more information on the Suhl bolt go here:
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128432

For information on the Suhl trigger adjustments go here:
http://members.cox.net/benchrest/Rimfire_notes.html#Suhl2

I believe Mr. MIke, Fred J, Renegade, Rich Lakey and Gary Mitchell and well as Dave Smith all had a part in contributing this information.

Have fun at the range:

Joe Haller :)
 
Thanks to all

I am always cautious when disassembling a tool or rifle especially if its not mine! I have lost a few pieces and failed to take note about how critical parts are orientated in my years of mess'n things that go bang especiallly early on. SUHL bolt disassembly looked pretty straight foreward in the the stickies on RFC but I wanted to get as much info and warnings as possible. Thank goodness for digital cameras too. I think I will order a Wolf spring and give that a try but first disassemble the bolt and clean it to see if that doesnt help one thing at a time. Had a brand new custom BR action once that shot absolutlely terrible. Spent a lot of time on loads and stock bolt torque, Scopes etc. Finally found out while cleaning it to send back to the manufacturer that a piece of very heavy clear plastic was stuck up in the bolt cushoning the firing pin blow! It was jammed such that it didnt show up even when I first disassembled the bolt. Anyway thank you for you'alls help! STBE
 
Extractors & Barrel

Make sure you clean the extractors and the extractor slots in the barrel. Do not attempt to take the extractors out without a large clear plastic bag covering everything. I found a Rain Bonnet for Golf clubs, that was open on both ends so I could work with both hands, on the spring loaded extractors without the fear of shooting a plunger and spring out in to the open pasture or plush carpet. Also make sure you get all the wax buildup on the breach and bolt face. They should not touch on a Suhl. Do not attempt to change HS on your Suhl.
 
I seem to remember a spring and plunger from Fred's Suhl shooting out into the grassy parking area at the Ennis range.
 
It Goes Bang - Right?
Try fixing the original problem – the STOCK! - A Washer does not cut it. :(
Since it goes Bang then over 80% of your problems are probably in how the action is bedded. Try Pilar bedding the stock. :p
Fix that first!
Fine tune light strikes and or head space later.
 
Joe Haller said:
Mr. Harris:

Taking the bolt apart is straight forward. You just have to make sure you put it together the same way it came apart.

Dave Smith from Florida told me it is important to clean the inside of the bolt often. Dave sold me my first Grade 10 Suhl. He called me on the phone to tell me how to take the bolt apart. I also got information from Fred Jemison and a gunsmith from the Northeast.

1. Take the bolt out of the action.
2. Let down the firing pin. (While holding the bolt, twist the bolt handle to the left)
3. Turn the cap on the back of the bolt 1/4 turn to the left.
4. Remove the cap.
5. Slowly pull the firing pin assembly out of the bolt body.
6. Note the relation of the parts. (They gota go back the same way)
7. Don't loose the detent or it's spring. It's not under pressure, but could fall out.
8. Clean the inside of the bolt body with a brush and patches.
9. Clean the firing pin.
10. Reassemble dry, or clean with lighter fluid, let dry, then reassemble.
(The lighter fluid will leave a very lightly lubricated surface)

I don't think you should attempt to take the firing pin spring off the firing pin. That is best left to a competent rimfire gunsmith.

For more information on the Suhl bolt go here:
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128432

For information on the Suhl trigger adjustments go here:
http://members.cox.net/benchrest/Rimfire_notes.html#Suhl2

I believe Mr. MIke, Fred J, Renegade, Rich Lakey and Gary Mitchell and well as Dave Smith all had a part in contributing this information.

Have fun at the range:

Joe Haller :)
Click to expand...

Hi Joe,

do you recall who the gunsmith from the Northeast is? ... There is a old time gentleman gunsmith/builder in my area of Mass. who is German and has extensive knowledge of European makes. He's 90 years young. Name is Benco Alexander.
Sound familiar?

M.S.
 
Mass Shooter

Thank you for your help and to all who are adding to our knowledge of getting the best out of our German 22's Thank you. STBE
 
Hello Mass Shooter . . .

I don't recall the name of that Gunsmith: Not even sure that he gave his name. It was a pleasant surprise to have a gunsmith make a long distance phone call to me, just to help me out.

Joe Haller :)
 
Got it done?

Harris:
Have you got that Suhl shooting yet? I case you didn't know it, 90% of those break down photos, came from me. Todd was gracious enough to post them over on RFC. I just finish building another Suhl from a stripped action and stripped bolt. Getting the parts, took the longest. Action was thread wrong, so I had to get that corrected. Got to get some risers for the rear sights, so I can shoot it a 100 yards. Put in in a Anschutz 1907 LH Stock. Added a hook and I'm ready to finish testing. BKL has the risers on the way as we speak. Keep me posted on your project.
 
Suhl

I have two Suhls and the first one I bought was having light firing pin marks to the point I was having some FTF with Eley ammo. In researching this, I found Mr. Butch Hongisto, a really fine BR gunsmith who is very knowledgable on Suhls and was kind enough to look at my rifle and found the problem - excessive headspace. He told me that this is a rather common problem in factory Suhls. The fix is a shim that reduces the headspace - which he just happens to have. Here is his contact info should you want to contact him: hongisto@fidnet.com (He can rebarrel your gun should you decide on that route.)

Also, there are a lot of Suhl's with 19 twist barrels (my two also infortunately). Mine shoot great out to 50 yards and then the slow twist realy starts opening the groups up.

Good luck and keep us informed how it goes,

George
 
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