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Donald
Guest
Anyone have any subsonic loads for a 308 Win. with a 175 grain bullet. What powder would you use if you wanted to experiment. Any thoughts?
Donald
Donald
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benenglish
Guest
I've played in this area a bunch for decades.
I strongly suggest this document: http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Youth Loads.pdf
The relevant passage reads: "...we recommend our 60% rule with H4895. By taking the maximum charges listed in our 27th Edition reloading manual with any given cartridge and multiplying it by 60%, the shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works only where H4895 is listed."
More recently, a powder used for Cowboy Action Shooting, Trail Boss, has been used for similar applications. I have no experience with it. When it first came out, the official line from IMR was that it was not designed for reduced loads in bottleneck cartridges, period. It seemed like an obvious application, but I certainly wasn't going to argue with the people who made the stuff. Much later, I saw some factory-approved load data for reduced loads in bottleneck cartridges. Unfortunately, I'm unable to lay my hands on that data at the moment. The basic reloading manual (here: http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Hodgdon Basic Manual.pdf ) contains a Trail Boss load for the 30-30 Winchester that pushes a 160 grain cast bullet at less than 1000 f/s. My recollection is that there's .308 Win data out there but, as I said, I can't lay my hands on it right now.
While H4895 probably can't take you subsonic with 175 grain bullets from a .308 Win (unless you're using a *really* short barrel; I love the .308 in pistols), it and Trail Boss are the two powders I'd use to start my research.
Just my opinion. I'd love to hear others. This is an area I really enjoy.
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benenglish
Guest
I hate replying to myself, but I found that data I was looking for. It turns out my recollection was wrong. The officially-sanctioned data I've seen was not for the .308 Win., it was for the 30-06.
Hodgdon's 2007 Annual Manual includes an article by Charles E. Petty entitled "Trail Boss - It's Not Just For Cowboy Action Shooting" that includes a load of 9 grains in a 30-06, pushing a 165-grain cast bullet to 1112 fps.
If I wanted to go fully-with-a-margin subsonic with a 308 Win., I'd play with Trail Boss behind those 175s or I'd try H4895 with much heavier bullets fired down a short, fast-twist barrel. That latter strategy was what I used a long time ago when I was an active pistol silhouette shooter.
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Donald
Guest
Thanks Guys,
I have a friend that hunts hogs and has gone thru the mess of getting a legal sound suppressor. A cop in Ok. City has a class 3 FFL and set him up. He has it on an AR10. He also sold him some ammo for it. $1.75 per round. Friend said he shot it with the suppressor and the subsonic load and it didn't even make as much sound as a 22LR. He gave me a loaded round. I broke it down and it had 9.0 grains Trail Boss behind a 175 grain BT. BT goes down in case a bit taking up some excess room. The powder came about 2/3 up in the case. Looks like tiny little flat donuts. We haven't chronographed a load yet as he just got his rifle back this past weekend. I found a load on the Hodgdon/IMR site for a 150 grain bullet in a 308. 10 grains TB, 150 gn. bullet, 1176 fps at about 25,000 psi and 14 grains max at 1417 fps at about 27,000 psi. Not enough to cycle a gas gun. That was the only load for Trail Boss. Friend is a really smart guy, chemist or engineer, but doesn't know anything about reloading so I guess I will be his mentor. I am pretty leary of reduced loads of regular powder as I have had a couple of pure detonations that wrecked a couple cases, using a too fast powder.
Donald
I have a friend that hunts hogs and has gone thru the mess of getting a legal sound suppressor. A cop in Ok. City has a class 3 FFL and set him up. He has it on an AR10. He also sold him some ammo for it. $1.75 per round. Friend said he shot it with the suppressor and the subsonic load and it didn't even make as much sound as a 22LR. He gave me a loaded round. I broke it down and it had 9.0 grains Trail Boss behind a 175 grain BT. BT goes down in case a bit taking up some excess room. The powder came about 2/3 up in the case. Looks like tiny little flat donuts. We haven't chronographed a load yet as he just got his rifle back this past weekend. I found a load on the Hodgdon/IMR site for a 150 grain bullet in a 308. 10 grains TB, 150 gn. bullet, 1176 fps at about 25,000 psi and 14 grains max at 1417 fps at about 27,000 psi. Not enough to cycle a gas gun. That was the only load for Trail Boss. Friend is a really smart guy, chemist or engineer, but doesn't know anything about reloading so I guess I will be his mentor. I am pretty leary of reduced loads of regular powder as I have had a couple of pure detonations that wrecked a couple cases, using a too fast powder.
Donald
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rick983
Guest
Trail Boss Powder
I have been using Trail Boss since it came out in bottle necked and straight wall cartridges that I want subsonic. I have a 44 Magnum rifle suppressed, and with 10.0 gr. of Trail Boss and a 250 gr. Sierra, velocity is 1000 fps and it is super quiet and accuracy is outstanding. I know Hodgdon downplays using Trail Boss in bottle necked cartridges, but you will find lots of information in the different shooting forums on the net. I love the powder.
I have been using Trail Boss since it came out in bottle necked and straight wall cartridges that I want subsonic. I have a 44 Magnum rifle suppressed, and with 10.0 gr. of Trail Boss and a 250 gr. Sierra, velocity is 1000 fps and it is super quiet and accuracy is outstanding. I know Hodgdon downplays using Trail Boss in bottle necked cartridges, but you will find lots of information in the different shooting forums on the net. I love the powder.
Bill Wynne
Active member
Check with Sierra answer people at 800.223.8799. These folks are always helpful and it is not the first time someone asked. They would like for you to use Sierra bullets but they know about all brands and will always give you good answers.
Concho Bill