So I hear this is the place to talk 6mm PPC?

G

GJgo

Guest
Hi all, new member here. *waves* A couple years ago, when I really didn't need another rifle, I came across a beautiful Sako 75 in 6mm PPC USA. I was forced to buy it. :D Being the "detail oriented" person that I am, I decided to save up for some top quality glass and about a year later was able to put a Nightforce BR scope on it. As time went on, I was able to pick up Lapua brass, Redding competition bushing dies, ect., with the long term goal for this rifle of building something I could (learn to) compete with. (I have yet to compete, but look forward to some day.) I'm hoping this will be a good place to chat with some others with experience both with the 6, setting it up, and maybe some resources for meets, competitions, etc. I'm located in Western Colorado, by the way.

About a month ago I took my first handloads for the gun to the range for a shakedown. (Post barrel break-in, of course.) I started with H322, CCI match primers, and both Berger FB 68gr and 80 gr bullets. It did OK. (.5-.7" groups @ 100 yds) Since this rifle has a 1:12 twist, I decided to go back the next week with just the 80gr bullets and also I switched to Benchmark. It was much better- as I went through the ladder, around 26 grains it was putting down .2-.3" groups at around 2900 fps. (I didn't have much neck tension and the FPS variance wasn't very tight, so I'm going back with a .001" tighter bushing in the die to see if I can bring the groups in.) (This is a USA neck, BTW, at ~.269".) Also, as I increased in grains, I made it up to around 3200 fps with 29 grains, and still no pressure signs. The groups opened up a bit, but it shows that this chamber can push them fast! Seeing as how it was only my second time out with this rig I'm pretty sure the gun was shooting better than I was..

As it turns out, I can no longer get the Bergers locally. I really like to buy supplies like that locally, so I'm looking for an alternative. Thoughts? If that doesn't pan out and I have to mail order, I'd just as soon try some of the custom bullets that guys are competing with. Ideas there? I liked the twist when I bought it- we have local dynamite shoots at 600yds, and I'd like to put some emphasis on a load for those in addition to 100-300yd benchrest stuff. I've got some Hornady 87gr BTHP to try, and have considered trying the 75gr Vmax and the 80gr Ballistic Tip. Not exactly match grade, but it's on the shelf. Anyone try the Lapua Scenar in what is it, 95 grain (?), in a 12 twist PPC?

Anyway, thanks in advance for reading, and for any ideas / suggestions you may have. :) I'm sure I'll add more as I try it in the future!
 
GJgo,

Welcome.

That's essentially the rifle that got me started :) Actually mine is an older model called a BR 59. They shoot really well for a factory rifle. Mine has a really loose 14 twist, like 14.75, it won't stabilize 70gr NBt's in cold weather. If yours is truly twelve you may get it to shoot up to 80-85gr bullets but don't count on it! It'll depend on their length. I'd strongly doubt that you'll get the 95's to fly.

My advice is to enjoy it, it should be the most accurate rifle you've ever owned. Take the time to skim bed it well and make sure the barrel has clearance and keep your loads around 3250fps with 68's and she should shoot mmah'velous....mine is an honest quarter-inch+ rifle. Really fun is the 55gr NBt's running at around 3650, STILL under a half-inch....this thang'll eat a 22-250 for lunch. Take 'er to some matches and give it a go! You'll learn a ton.

Furthermore free advice (worth what ya' paid ;) ) .........do NOT modify it other than to skim bed it....



I'd recommend that you direct your further queries to the Factory/Hybrid Forum. :)


al
 
Thanks Al. So what do you mean by "skim bed"?

It really works well with the 80gr Berger FB bullets and Benchmark. My local Sportsman's Warehouse is haveing a handloading contest right now (100 yds, 3 shot group, etc.) and I'm actually winning it (so far!) with a (IIRC) .177" group..
 
Skim bedding is a type of glass bedding. Skim bedding is accomplished by introducing a small amount of epoxy between the action and the stock and GENTLY tightening her together overnight.


All it does is ensure consistency from shot to shot. Your zero may well wander around over time like any wood stocked rifle will, but the skim bed assures that on any given day it'll hold a decent zero. Skim bedding should also relieve you of the temptation to tighten the action screws to some mythical "torque spec" ;) Once she's bedded you just tighten her up with a round handled screwdriver or even the short side of the allen wrench.....OK. maybe the LONG leg of the wrench but only two fingers! All's you're doing with torque specs is squishing wood which will sooner or later cause problems.

IMO skim bedding and shooting NS only will wring every bit of available accuracy out of this rig. Remember to GREASE THOSE LUGS!!! every 10shots or less when reloading NS only.


hth


al
 
Nope - all a skim bed does is improve bedding area contact between a stock and a screw-in action, without hogging out a lot of material from the stock. I did it with a couple of my Savages, and it seems to "tighten things up" a wee bit... These are stocks that have Savage's attempt at pillar bedding already, and I think the increased contact area is a good thing.
 
Wilbur, nope.


GJgo, OOOPS :eek: I think that what Master Wilbur is gently reminding me of is this..........WHEN introducing the skim of epoxy please put a release agent on the action! I'm NOT referring to the Bench Rest practice of permanently gluing or bonding the stock to the action but instead to just a SKIM of bedding compound in the interest of eliminating liddle creepy-crawlies. The Sako's are machine inletted and a skim of epoxy bedding compound will settle them into a much solider shooting groove than just leaving them to bounce about on the wood.

Thanx Weelburrrrr ;)


al
 
LOL thanks.. I suppose "gluing" it could make life interesting should the barrel get shot out.. ;)

I'll look into it.
 
The barrel isn't the issue. We change barrels with actions glued in stocks all of the time. The real problem would be working on the trigger, or possibly maintaining bolt release function.
 
GJgo: I may have the same Rifle as you do?
Mine is a bolt action Sako, single shot, heavy barrel (measuring 23 3/4" long).
I bought it from an estate in new unfired condition back in 2,002.
I am not sure what its model number designation is.
I mounted a 24 power Leupold scope on it and I also obtained some Redding dies for it.
My Rifle shoots the Nosler 70 grain Ballistic Tips VERY well!
With VihtaVouri powder, Sako brass and Federal 205M (match) primers I have shot groups (5 shots at 100 yards) as small as .212"!
Another bullet my Sako likes especially well is the 68 gr. Euber bullet.
I use my Sako for long range Colony Varmint Hunting and its excellent trigger helps in that regard.
Best of luck with your Sako 6mm PPC - although your 3 shot grouping of .177" is a pretty sure indication you won't need it!
What is the power range of your NightForce scope by the way?
I am not sure if the Sako people are offering their Rifles in 6mm PPC anymore - do you know the answer to that?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
 
Sounds about the same. :) My NF is the 8-32 (?) BR with the NP-1RR reticle. As far as I know you can't get 'em anymore..
 
*over a year later update*

Just came across my old thread on Google. :) So I left the rifle factory, no bedding, but with more shooting I think it maybe could use it- otherwise there's some stress in the barrel as it takes a few shots for the zero to settle down.

Did a couple benchrest matches, my grand aggs came in at 0.5". Not bad for a factory rifle, I guess, but I load at home and I couldn't help but think that the Benchmark was getting picky about temperature changes.

Tried Berger 68 gr FB again, no luck. Tried 70gr Sierra match, no luck. Tried 87 gr Hornady BTHP, shoots better than those but still not like the Berger 80 gr FB. Never any luck with H322. Good luck with both Benchmark & Varget in the heavier bullets. I'm about to try some 80gr Ballistic Tips. If they won't shoot, I guess I'll just mail order a large batch of the 80 gr FB bullets and be done with it. :)
 
Glad to hear your still happy with the rifle. Loved mine. Why don't you get some custom 65-68gr Flatbase bullets, seat them close to jam and work up to about 28.8-28.9 grains of VV N133. Also, one thing I found out and don't know if anyone else every noticed this (I may be full of BS though), is if a gun will shoot the longer bullets better that the shorter bullets (that should shoot well in that twist) you might want to get a new crown on the barrel.

Hovis
 
Thanks Hovis. Are you suggesting that a custom 68gr FB is markedly different than the Berger offering? Remember I've got a 12 twist. To my eye the crown looks mint. Of course I've never tried N133, but no one sells it around here and I'm not much for mail ordering supplies.
 
So I've done some initial testing with the 80gr ballistic tips & Benchmark. I'm using a batch of Sako brass I have for this one. So far so good- initially they're shooting every bit as good in my rifle (best = 5 thou jump) as the 80gr Berger FB bullets (best = 5 thou jam).

I'm getting 5 shot groups similar to the one below (.268"). The BTs do shoot 125 fps slower (2830 @ 25 grains, Sako case) at the accuracy node compared to the Bergers (2955 @ 26 grains, Lapua case), but it's still plenty fast for target shooting. One thing I find interesting is that even at the slower speed, the BTs (BC = .329) print 1/2" higher @ 100yds than the Bergers (BC = .324) (same scope setting).

I want to do some more testing for consistency- if it pans out, I'll make the switch since I can run down to the store to get the BTs while I have to order the Bergers. I know that I can shoot a .5 MOA grand agg with the Bergers in this rig, so I'll have to run a grand agg with the BTs to really get an idea of their potential.
 

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Update- I'm getting better consistency with the 80gr NBTs than I did with the 80gr Bergers. With the Bergers I'd get random vertical & horizontal strings. (see top left group in attached photo) With the Noslers I'm getting equal accuracy to a good day with the Bergers, but it's been more consistent from day to day.

The 25.5 gr Benchmark load would have been my first screamer! 4 shots into 2 little holes, but then there was that last one. :(
 

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68gr Match Bullets in 12 twist

GJ, I have a friend that bought .223 Savage LRPV. He was not satisfied w/performance. He returned rifle to Savage for rebarreling to 6mm BR in 12 twist. I personally broke the barrel in. The 1st 3 shot group after break-in, was .240". After experimenting w/Benchmark, 322, and v133, we settled on 31grs , Benchmark and 68 grain Bart's and 68 gr Knights. This was a true (and still is) quarter inch rifle (and better). So I think your Sako will shoot the 68's just fine.
Also , I have another friend w/8 twist Savage, 6MM BR. His shoots the 68 Bergers really well and has won 4 of 5 VFS matches in the Factory Class. His rifle w/8twist does not peform nearly as well w/85 to 107's, w/ the 8 twist.
(Do not know why) Just my 2 cents.
HFV
 
Sako 6ppc and 22ppc

VarmintGuy said:
GJgo: I may have the same Rifle as you do?
Mine is a bolt action Sako, single shot, heavy barrel (measuring 23 3/4" long).
I bought it from an estate in new unfired condition back in 2,002.
I am not sure what its model number designation is.
I mounted a 24 power Leupold scope on it and I also obtained some Redding dies for it.
My Rifle shoots the Nosler 70 grain Ballistic Tips VERY well!
With VihtaVouri powder, Sako brass and Federal 205M (match) primers I have shot groups (5 shots at 100 yards) as small as .212"!
Another bullet my Sako likes especially well is the 68 gr. Euber bullet.
I use my Sako for long range Colony Varmint Hunting and its excellent trigger helps in that regard.
Best of luck with your Sako 6mm PPC - although your 3 shot grouping of .177" is a pretty sure indication you won't need it!
What is the power range of your NightForce scope by the way?
I am not sure if the Sako people are offering their Rifles in 6mm PPC anymore - do you know the answer to that?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Click to expand...

Lookin for Sako 6ppc & 22ppc's go to www.accuflite.com. James has 1 each in custom rifles.

James Bartol specializes in new, custom, and hard to find Sako firearms.
 
HFV said:
GJ, I have a friend that bought .223 Savage LRPV. He was not satisfied w/performance. He returned rifle to Savage for rebarreling to 6mm BR in 12 twist. I personally broke the barrel in. The 1st 3 shot group after break-in, was .240". After experimenting w/Benchmark, 322, and v133, we settled on 31grs , Benchmark and 68 grain Bart's and 68 gr Knights. This was a true (and still is) quarter inch rifle (and better). So I think your Sako will shoot the 68's just fine.
Also , I have another friend w/8 twist Savage, 6MM BR. His shoots the 68 Bergers really well and has won 4 of 5 VFS matches in the Factory Class. His rifle w/8twist does not peform nearly as well w/85 to 107's, w/ the 8 twist.
(Do not know why) Just my 2 cents.
HFV
Click to expand...

This is actually reasonable. I've messed with .243AI's, 6BR's and 6X47L's in all common twists from 14-8 using a wide variety of neck sizes and it is my opinion that the phenomenon is explained by neck clearance. The little 68gr pills will "self-straighten" into the lands because of the long bearing surface coupled with the flat base whereas the longer pills will enter crooked due to the over-large clearance in the neck and stay crooked increasing lateral jump at muzzle exit.

IMO you must maintain minimal neck clearance to get VLD's and the like to shoot.

al
 
True alinwa

If you have a .273x nk like in my 6x47L you need to have a .271x fiited neck
(seated bullet when measuring nk), that's .2715 all the way along the now parallel fitted neck you have created. You better have some good mics and be able to maintain what you created(fitted neck) look for pressure signs after each firing of that set of brass. Be willing to discard lots of brass as pressure starts to destroy brass. Lots of work, lots of checking measuring for pressure signs, but that is the life of living on the BR edge of fitted neck loading Different lots of powder become critical, primers too, and bullets as measured from new lots of bullets be safe do some smple measure before you commit to a load even with conservtive light loading. Check your lot with a few loads before you load up 100 rds of ballistic missles that might destroy your brass, your gun, or you. That is why in maintaining your loading it is so critical, even with light loads, even in a bad fitting chamber/loaded cartridge relationship to measure always before firing cases and after, check be safe.

To add. When working with fitted necks or if you want concentric necks you must neck turn your brass. The first cutting is fine, fit your neck with your favorite bullets check with several types of bullets. Be confidant that you can maintain a safe fitted neck. Don't be lazy check and measure necks for each loading. Brass flows and needs to checked and fitted again and again. Remember your cut say .2624 cut neck will always be the same unless you screw it with a bad cleaning rod along with bad cleaning techniques. Use skim cuts with your neck turner to maintain your safe specs. If you do this you can live with fitted necks for the life of the barrel.
Done.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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