snug bolt lockup

J

jaybic

Guest
Hello guys,

This questions is based on a separate question from the gunsmith forum.

I have a newly rebarreled 700 in .308 and when I shut the bolt on an empty chamber, it is just ever so snug. Unless I jam a round into the lands, there is really no different feel in closing the bolt, loaded or not. I just seems to lock up nice and tight but not overly so(to my limited knowledge).

When the action is trued and lapped...ect..ect and the new barrel put on, should there be ANY bolt play at all or should it be just slightly snug when lowering the bolt handle?

A gunsmith showed my a another action that had been rebarreled by a big name barrel maker and it seemed that that action had quite a bit of empty chamber bolt slop but maybe it is supposed to be that way. I dont know. My barrel is of the same brand and maker and I like the way my smith dialed it all up nice and tight. Is this a good thing?

BTW, It seems to shoot quite well(by my standards...5 shots in a paper plate at 50 feet all day long...:D)

Thanks again fellas,

Jamie
 
No, just closing the bolt on an empty chamber. Bolt is fully assembled.
 
The one thing you don't want...is the bolt nose to touch the barrel, even during firing. Other than that. Slop in a properly fit barrel to a factory action is because of a poor bolt to action body fit. This is something most smiths can take care of by replacing bolt or putting bushings on it. If the customer does not want to pay for either of these...then you get what the factory provided.

Hovis
 
HovisKM said:
The one thing you don't want...is the bolt nose to touch the barrel, even during firing. . . .
Click to expand...

This is going to start the age-old arguement but . . . Who says?

I know an old time Rem 700 Gunsmith who's name you would recognize immediately, who doesn't buy that statement. Years ago I told him basically what you said and his reply to me was, "Who says?" I didn't have an answer. So now I make my 700 custom barrel jobs just the way he does, with a nice slide fit twix bolt nose and barrel tenon. With the bolt sleeved at the rear, everything is perfectly lined up.

The bolt touches the action, the action touches the barrel, the barrel touches the stock, everything touches everything else, so why can't the bolt nose touch the barrel?:confused:

Ray
 
Jay, the factory doesn't want.........

Joe Sixpak to be sending the rifle or his lawyers back because he didn't get the trees(crud) from between the bolt & barrel, if he cleans it at all. If he doesn't clean it, they want at least the shrubs :D to fall down in the generous space between the barrel & bolt, to be swept away by the lugs. Your rifle locks up snugly because your gunsmith trusts you to take care of things properly, and investigate if you notice some change, as in, perhaps it feels a little different when opening or closing, and you take out the bolt and look to see if there are a couple kernals of powder on the bolt nose, or a couple threads from a cleaning patch that cause a bit of drag. You probably will also get in a good light to see if anything's in the bolt recess in the barrel.;) Its training like that, that leads to trust, which results in an extraordinary rifle. Congratulations, you haven't been percieved by your 'smith, as ordinary.:D
 
Cheechako said:
This is going to start the age-old arguement but . . . Who says?

I know an old time Rem 700 Gunsmith who's name you would recognize immediately, who doesn't buy that statement. Years ago I told him basically what you said and his reply to me was, "Who says?" I didn't have an answer. So now I make my 700 custom barrel jobs just the way he does, with a nice slide fit twix bolt nose and barrel tenon. With the bolt sleeved at the rear, everything is perfectly lined up.

The bolt touches the action, the action touches the barrel, the barrel touches the stock, everything touches everything else, so why can't the bolt nose touch the barrel?:confused:

Ray
Click to expand...



!!!


hmmmmmm

al
 
German

It doesn't touch fore and aft. As the barrel gets hot the counterbore will get bigger not smaller.

As Brian so eloquently said, this kind of fit isn't for the casual shooter. We (Benchrest shooters) don't let our rifles get so filthy that they won't function. And we don't let them get so hot that dimensions change enough to affect anything.

Ray
 
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Jamie, Is it still snug after you drop the firing pin on an empty chamber? After you do that there should be a small amount of fore and aft play. Jon
 
Well, I guess I dont know if a snug bolt is some sort of nonverbal gunsmith complement but if so, I am happy about it. I imagine that gunsmithing, like many other things, is sometimes straight-up art work and depending on the client, sometimes simple damage/idiot control. I guess as a travel agent, I have seen a few people that were far too stupid to be traveling at all so I try to get them to buy the simplest route/ticket available. Maybe its the same thing. I dont know.


I just checked and after pulling the trigger on an empty chamber, I dont notice alot of difference other that the bolt is willing to come up just a bit before I feel tension(I assume the tension is the locking lugs disengaging and starting to move against the lug recesses).

It all seems quite smooth but I guess I dont know if the "snugness" is just the lugs making good contact or if the bolt face is going nose to nose with whatever that part of the barrel is called(barrel face?)

Thanks again fellas, I always learn alot here.:)

Jamie
 
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jaybic

To really feel how the bolt fits your receiver you have to strip it (the bolt) first. You can then insert the bolt and wiggle and twist and turn it in all directions. You'll feel where there is any sloppiness.

You also need to strip the bolt when trying brass to see how it fits the chamber.

Ray
 
There are several issues involved in proper bolt fit. Only the riflesmith that built it knows or should know the answer to your question.

First is the OD of the bolt nose and the relief cut in the barrel, next is the clearance between the front of the bolt nose and the end of the barrel, next would be the clearance between the front of the locking lugs and the end of the barrel. Any of these three tolerances can be too tight.

Match grade Vs sporter grade is usually left to the smiths discretion.
 
Dan Carey said:
There are several issues involved in proper bolt fit. Only the riflesmith that built it knows or should know the answer to your question.

First is the OD of the bolt nose and the relief cut in the barrel, next is the clearance between the front of the bolt nose and the end of the barrel, next would be the clearance between the front of the locking lugs and the end of the barrel. Any of these three tolerances can be too tight.

Match grade Vs sporter grade is usually left to the smiths discretion.
Click to expand...

And let me add the spacing of the lugs to the root of the bolt handle, timing of the unlocking cams to the primary extraction cam and the clocking of he bolt handle/locking lugs and striker sear..... I guess I'd also visually check to see that the bolt handle isn't touching the rear of the action as the lugs lock down once you've got the bolt stripped. And in a perfect world it's nice if the bolthandle doesn't jump when you put it back together and dryfire it.... and it's nice if the handoff for the trigger is timed such that when you close the bolt on a loaded round you don't have any camming on the striker.


ALL THIS SAID, if the bolt functions smoothly and the gun SHOOTS then why worry about it?

al
 
Lynn said:
If your bolt is running into the barrel it won't group as well as it should.Who says so Kelbly's says so and he has posted it on the centerfire forum as well.
Lynn
Click to expand...

Well, actually, Cheech isn't talking about the bolt "running into the barrel," just that the counterbore be used as a guiding means.

As I said, hmmmmmm....... I dunno.

al
 
Well,

I have the answer to my query. In speaking with my smith today about getting another rifle rebarreled(my questionable shooting Abolt), he mentioned one of the things he does is to tighten up all the tolerances, one of which is to get the bolt touching the barrel ever so slightly. I see the different perspectives and opinions on this and cant help but wonder if its the way it should be but it sure seems to shoot well.

I am going to try to post pictures of some groups and maybe feedback will let me know if the bolt and barrel "touching" is hurting accuracy.

Thanks fellas,
 
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