Shooting technique

J

jaybic

Guest
Hello again,

I got a great deal of valuable info from my first post so I am going back to the well again.:)

I am trying to improve my bench habits/load testing technique and am hoping to find some answers. I have been an avid rifle shooter/reloader for years but am trying to improve to "almost bench quality" handloading for target/varmint shooting. What I am now questioning is my actual shooting technique and how that plays(or not) a part.

Do you bench guys have a certain "routine" for taking each shot? I am talking about sitting down, cheek weld, trigger squeeze(freecoil?) death grip on the gun type stuff. It seems like I will shoot a 10 shot group(the norm for my load testing standards) and I can hide 6/7 shots under my thumbnail(stock 22-250 Abolt with trigger job and Leupold VX III 4x14 w/varmint reticle and AO)and the next 3 or 4 shots will be 3/4-1 inch away, sometimes in a little group of their own and sometimes all over. I should maybe post pics of groups to help me explain this but I hope you guys know what I am getting at. Maybe not looking thru the scope the same way each time? I am shooting off a bench(metal with wood top bolted to a concrete slab@ 100 yds at a 2 inch shoot n see target with a 3/16 inch orange dot for an aiming point and the shots hit 2 inches high so I dont blow out my aiming point. I believe my hold is quite steady in the scope also but maybe not. I know this is not good shooting by bench standards but ya gotta start some where.

I dont have a fancy rest( I cant believe what you guys will pay for a rest!) but I made one out of a piece of 2x10 wood that has a nice snug U shaped fore end rest that is carpeted and it extends back under the stock which sits in a small bench type sand bag that I squeeze to move the scope up and down.

I am sorry if I am on the wrong site and for the long post but the varmint sites just dont seem to get this in depth on the subject so I wanted to go to the pros for advice and that is you guys.

Long question short. Is it the gun, the load, the rest, technique, scope focus....ect...ect?

Any ideas fellas?

Thanks again to any and all of you.

Jaybic
Rookie Accuracy Nut

P.s I did take some advice on my other thread and have some books/dvd coming but not here yet and if all the answers are in there, I apologize for bothering anyone. :)
 
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Let's tackle a couple of things to start out with. A home made front rest can get the job done just fine, but I think that some sort of sand bag (not filled too tight) would do a better job of damping vibrations than carpet over wood.

Next point, where you locate your front rest on the forend can have a major effect. Many shooters have the front of the rifle supported too far forward on the forend and this can cause a kind of diving board like bounce that is counterproductive for best accuracy.

Another point, you need to be looking as some sort of wind flags. Sticks pounded in the ground with surveyor's ribbon will do for a start. Lastly, once you can "see" the wind, you will start to associate better groups with shooting all of your shots in as close to the same condition (wind direction and speed) as is possible.

Many times casual group shooters dally too long between shots. After you fire a shot, get the rifle reloaded and reaimed as quickly as you can. That bullet hole isn't going anywhere, but the condition that you shot it in will.
 
Barrel heat may be a factor also. Try shooting 5 shot groups and letting the barrel cool, then shoot your other 5 shots at the same aiming point to see if you get more repeatability.
 
I guess I may be under estimating the wind. I guess I would not think that a 5 mph wind can turn 5 shots under a dime(high tech measuring tool)which is about 1/2 inch, into 5 shots that cannot be covered by a quarter(my other high tech group measuring tool) but maybe I am sorely mistaken.


I know wind is an issue and I try to wait until near calm or dead calm when I can get it or shoot evenings when the wind dies off and on the weather channel it had the wind at 5-10 mph so I dont know I guess.

My rest sits right under the last 1-3 inches of my fore end so maybe it is too far forward.

Anyway, thanks again for the advice fellas.

Jaybic
 
Even a relatively light wind can open up a group, even with a reasonably high velocity round like a 22-250. Even if you get just a half inch of drift you have doubled the size of a group if the rifle is shooting in the half inch range. That would be the first thing to work on.

Have you removed the sling swivel studs, having them hanging up on the rests won't do anything to help groups.

I'd also get even a modest priced adjustable front rest with a one piece sand bag the right size for your forend. A front rest with some weight to it and a proper fitting bag will help. You can also get a handy device that attaches to the front swivel stud that fixes a 3 inch wide flat plate to the forend. That used with a 3 inch sandbag on an adjustable front rest will be a big help in stability and ease of shooting since the rifle will not be rolling around on a rounded forend.

Bryce
 
jaybic,
This site is a great source of information with lots of knowledgable shooters. I also have a whole website about improving the quality of your handloads, understanding scope parallax, understanding headspace, improving case neck tension and a bunch of "almost-benchrest" things that will help your varmint shooting.

Visit http://www.larrywillis.com

- Innovative
 
I tried free recoil for the first time this past weekend with my Savage LRPV.I was amazed how much better it shot without the operator hanging on to it.So I figured I'd try it with my 300 saum sendero with my shoulder barely touching the butt,the results were less than encouraging.Not enough weight in the sendero I guess.
 
Midway has their Rock front rest on sale now. It is an aluminum frame rest that doesn't have the weight or features of a top of the line rest, but it is equal to a lot of the older rests that were used to shoot a lot of record groups. It does have the side squeeze bag feature that is a big help in getting the proper fit on the forend.
 
I can only reinforce what has already been posted. Wind, even a slight one, will change that gnat hole to a june bug hole. That dime into a quarter. Wind flags, aka surveyer's tape on laths, will make all the difference in the world. What the wind is doing at your bench and at the target or along the way may be different things. You don't have to wait for dead stillness, just practice shooting when things are the same.
The fellows that can dope the wind are usually the ones that win the matches.
 
So If a guy is gonna put out wind flags to shoot by, how far apart should they be, every 5 yards or 25 yards or maybe one at 50 and the other at 100?
I assume you would want them at the same height as the bullet would travel approximately or no?

I spent 4 years in the USMC(86-90) and qualified expert each time with the m16a2 so I am kinda familiar with the range flags we had back then and I have also read some books by Lt Col John Plaster(Army)and learned about "near" and "far" wind and the 1/2, 3/4 and full value winds..ect but that was also 18 years ago.

Thanks again fellas.

Jaybic
 
Shooting at 100 yards if you put out a flag at 10 or 15 yards, another one at 50 yards, and maybe one at 75-80 yards that should be enough. Too many flags will only confuse you because they're likely to be going a couple different directions at least. :eek: The first time you use flags you'll be amazed at what the wind is doing between you and the target.

A piece of lath with surveyor's tape stapled to it or lengths of rebar with one end sharpened with surveyor's tape tied to it will work - depending on how hard the ground is.

Factory rifles even with "heavy" barrels" don't really have barrels that are that heavy. When they heat up they can move some, but it's usually the group wandering off in one direction.

A 5 mph wind can move a bullet around half an inch at 100 yards.

If a rifle has significant recoil it's going to need to be held onto, and light rifles generally aren't happy being shot free recoil either in my experience.
 
If a 5 mph wind can move a 22-250 or .223 bullet a 1/2 in at 100yds, that would sure help explain some if the groups I shot, I hope anyway. As mentioned before, I will shoot 10shot(usual) or maybe even a 5 shot group and it seems like no matter which of the 3 rifles I shoot(Abolt micro hunter in 22-250, Rem 700 hb in 22.250 or Match grade DPMS in .223) they all want to touch 6 or 7 holes and then toss the rest an inch away(10shot) or touch 3 holes and toss the other 2 away an inch. I am not at all saying that its not me as it sure may be but after reading what you guys say about wind, I am going take it alot more serious than I have been.

I am also thinking about ordering a ROCK BR rest by Caldwell for a front rest. I know its not even close to top of the line but it should be better that what I have. Has anyone had any experience with one of these?

I am going to buy range flag making supplies today after work.

Thanks for the insight.

Jaybic
 
A little breeze that's just detectable on the cheek is about 4 or 5 mph, and a 10 mph - or more - wind coming through some cut or notch or whatever, or that just blows through for whatever reason and is not detectable at the firing line can really screw things up. I'm sure glad I got learned to not run on sentences too! :eek::eek::D
 
Sorry about that if thats the case. I thought I had all the punctuation corrrect but there is so much knowledge here that every answer generates two more questions. I try and head that off next time.

Thanks again Larry.:)

Jaybic
 
ballistic64 said:
I tried free recoil for the first time this past weekend with my Savage LRPV.I was amazed how much better it shot without the operator hanging on to it.So I figured I'd try it with my 300 saum sendero with my shoulder barely touching the butt,the results were less than encouraging.Not enough weight in the sendero I guess.
Click to expand...

Please don't take this the wrong way but it sure made me laugh. I believe we all have a story kinda like that one its just that we won't all admit it!

Jaybic if your looking to buy a front rest contact Joe Cowan. The rest he builds is affordable and superior to the caldwell. He is a heck of a nice guy to deal with also. cowanhaus@verizon.net

By the way if your going to try free recoil it will definately improve your accuaracy. Be careful, If it's not a heavy benchrest gun a varmint weight 243 is about max I free recoil. But do that with caution, the scope will come back and get ya. I haven't had a scope cut me, Yet!!
 
I've seen a guy shoot a 700V Remington in .308 free recoil. He looked like he'd been in a fight with bloody knuckles and frequently eyebrow. Made me hurt to shoot next to him, but he shot well. No nerve endings is all I could figure.
 
I am also thinking about ordering a ROCK BR rest by Caldwell for a front rest. I know its not even close to top of the line but it should be better that what I have. Has anyone had any experience with one of these?
Click to expand...

Yeah not a top of the line compared to something like a Sinclair rest (about $340) which I had considered but a few hundred dollars less - mine was $119 and I think Midsouth still has them at $129. With front "bag" attached close to 15lbs so it will stay put. I did not use the front bag that came with the rest , using one I bought from Sinclair.

Despite lacking the precsion , fit and finish of the high end rests , I have shot my best groups ever with the Rock and done so with a far greater degree of consistency compared the old bi-pod and Hoppe's orange rest.

The Cowan mentioned above is one I had considered too. Have heard nothing but good from those who own them. At the time I was shopping there was still a waiting list.
 
Speaking of the Cowan rest... I just got an email from Joe.

They're all sold out now, but are taking names for the fall run, to be shipped around November.

Looks like I know what I'll be getting myself for a b-day present. :)
 
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