Shooting-Related Hearing Loss?

Hunter

Hunter

Chasin' the Sunset
Recently, I've been talking with a relatively new benchrest shooter who's in his early 40's about his concern over the risk of shooting-related hearing loss, even though he wears muffs and plugs while shooting. Can any of you share advice or comments about that subject? For example, do any of you who have ALWAYS used ear protection while shooting strongly suspect that you have shooting-related hearing loss? Alternatively, do any of you who have been shooting benchrest matches for several years and have ALWAYS used ear protection while shooting not have hearing loss?

Any other advice or comments for someone who's concerned about hearing loss due to shooting benchrest matches?
 
My hearing loss is the result, I believe, of every shot fired without hearing protection. Largely, I bought a Colt Python, shot a box of 50 factory loads at a tin can, and my ears have been ringing ever since. Every shot hurt somewhat and I don't know why I kept on shooting but I did. That was a long, long time ago and I made it quite a while but had to finally buy some hearing aids at the Costco.

It's not good enough to have hearing protection...you have to wear it at all times when near a firing line! Many times I've been sitting on a benchtop, with my "muffs" in my hand and experience a gunshot behind me. That kind of stuff is not good at all. Wear those earplugs and muffs everytime you go near a firing line!

To be more specific - I believe that if you wear muffs and plugs and never experience a shot without those items in place you won't have hearing loss. I also believe that's largely impossible to do if you attend many matches.
 
Great topic.
I am in my 40's ("25 and holding" if anyone asks). I've been shooting pretty much my whole life and Benchrest the last 6. Now, I wear both plugs and muffs while at the bench. I've noticed hearing loss the last couple of years. I also have tinnitus.

I talked to our school's audiologist about this and he asked about my teenage years and shooting. I did not wear hearing protection then.

He explained it this way: Hearing is similar to a concrete wall. It is pretty tough and can take some abuse, but once you get a hole started in the wall, it is relatively easy to chip away at the hole and make it bigger. Our hearing is the same way and when I was young and dumb I would shoot with out protection with no noticeable side effects. Well..even though I did not notice it - the hole was started. Now, every time there is a loud noise (hunting without protection, arriving to a match while people are practicing and not wearing hearing protection, etc) are chipping away at the hole that was started many moons ago.

A couple conclusions from this:
1. My hearing loss process started long before I started Benchrest.
2. If/when I am cautious - Benchrest should not affect my hearing.

Stanley
 
I have been shooting for a number of years, and in the past I shot some benchrest matches. IMO the worst is not short range benchrest, but when at a range where muzzle brakes are common. I commonly wear thin muffs that probably are only good for 21db in combination with 33db foam plugs. As Wilbur said it is the shots that happen when your muffs are off that are the problem when shooting at a range or match.

Some years back, I did some research relating to tinnitus (ringing in the ears) and came up with something that I think might be of use. It seems that the military did some research, using new recruits in boot camp as their test subjects, and without getting into a lengthy explanation, the group that took 100mg per day of magnesium had fewer problems related to firearms noise. This needs to be done on an ongoing basis, and not just on those days when shooting is done. The good news is that this level of supplementation has other benefits as well, so there is no reason not to take it all the time.

Years later I did some more research and found a study that showed that a percentage of tinnitus sufferers got significant relief by taking about a gram of taurine a day. My wife worked for 40 years in a factory, and when I mentioned this to her, she told me that she is bothered by tinnitus and said she would like to try it. I believe that it has helped give her some relief. About that time, I posted a link to the article on this site, and although I got a lot of skeptical to negative posts a friend who has had the problem for some time, read the article, and decided to give it a try. Later he told me, and reported here that it gave him about 75% relief from his symptoms, which of course I was pleased to hear.

One parting piece of advice, electronic muffs only offer the protection that they do when turned off, and you need to find out what that number is. One thing that you can do to increase their protection is to wear foam plugs under them, which will allow you to hear better when they are turned on, and give the same protection as non amplified muffs in combination with plugs.
 
Boyd Allen said:
I have been shooting for a number of years, and in the past I shot some benchrest matches. IMO the worst is not short range benchrest, but when at a range where muzzle brakes are common. I commonly wear thin muffs that probably are only good for 21db in combination with 33db foam plugs. As Wilbur said it is the shots that happen when your muffs are off that are the problem when shooting at a range or match.

Some years back, I did some research relating to tinnitus (ringing in the ears) and came up with something that I think might be of use. It seems that the military did some research, using new recruits in boot camp as their test subjects, and without getting into a lengthy explanation, the group that took 100mg per day of magnesium had fewer problems related to firearms noise. This needs to be done on an ongoing basis, and not just on those days when shooting is done. The good news is that this level of supplementation has other benefits as well, so there is no reason not to take it all the time.

Years later I did some more research and found a study that showed that a percentage of tinnitus sufferers got significant relief by taking about a gram of taurine a day. My wife worked for 40 years in a factory, and when I mentioned this to her, she told me that she is bothered by tinnitus and said she would like to try it. I believe that it has helped give her some relief. About that time, I posted a link to the article on this site, and although I got a lot of skeptical to negative posts a friend who has had the problem for some time, read the article, and decided to give it a try. Later he told me, and reported here that it gave him about 75% relief from his symptoms, which of course I was pleased to hear.

One parting piece of advice, electronic muffs only offer the protection that they do when turned off, and you need to find out what that number is. One thing that you can do to increase their protection is to wear foam plugs under them, which will allow you to hear better when they are turned on, and give the same protection as non amplified muffs in combination with plugs.
Click to expand...



I took taurine for 6 months. It worked! My ringing is much less but still there. It use to keep me awake. The problem with these remedies is they they take time to start working (3 months) and then I become complacent and quit taking but it also takes time to quit working, and gradually the original problem emerges.
Bill
 
Wear plugs and muffs not only on but around the firing line.

Much of what hearing I lost was credited to the US Army. We were issued these cute little green plastic boxes that were secured to our uniform shoulder tabs. They contained a set of earplugs, but, we were not allowed to use the plugs!!

My being a tank commander and helping supervise the firing line while the main gun was being fired by my entire crew didn't help. Fortunately, at the time I was a smoker and kept filters to stuff in my ears. Saving those issue pear plugs contributed to the US not having a national debt at that time, IMO !!

Remember, plugs AND muffs!


.
 
FBecigneul said:
Ah, the same style plugs we were issued, Jerry.
I may still have the cute little case and chain clasp we were issued. Was I supposed to return them at separation?
Click to expand...

I think we were Francis but I still have mine too. They probably have a back door for the NSA anyway!!


.
 
Way back around 1962, I shot Hipower at Ft Bliss, Tex, and we used to put filter tips from cigarettes in our ears. Hardly useful, but the issue rubber plugs would get desert sand in them. Now I use a Walkers Game Ear as a hearing aid. Tested a few years ago, and they said I had 85% loss in the left, and 65% loss in the right ear. My tinnitus went from a high pitched whine to a sound like an oil burner running in the next room. Have to try the taurine fix....Nothing like 12 guys shooting a string of 200 yd Rapid with Garands to screw up yer ears! :eek:
 
My hearing loss started to occur in the US Navy. We had access to the yellow foam plugs. And I can testify the hearing loss was not from firearms. I was not allowed to fire a firearm in nearly 5 yrs of service. This was still the "Jimmy Carter Navy". No ammo and short handed. The only time we had a full complement of Electricians was when we left for WES-PAC. It lasted 2 days....
Our Emergency Generators were powered by a gas turbine and a diesel engine. I wore double hearing protection. Yellow foam ear plugs and Mickey Mouse ears. Religiously. On watch in the Engine room always yellow ear plugs. Always.
The week before I left the Navy. The ship had a hearing test. I had lost a frequency. Wow. Was I surprised. It's been down hill ever since.....
 
Air force as well

FBecigneul said:
Ah, the same style plugs we were issued, Jerry.
I may still have the cute little case and chain clasp we were issued. Was I supposed to return them at separation?
Click to expand...

I had the green twist open plastic case as well. The little earplugs were less than adequate working around B-52's! I don't remember having anything at the rifle range. ......Eh, didn't hear your answer!
 
Hunter said:
..... snip............ Can any of you share advice or comments about that subject? ........ snip............
Click to expand...

I'm 71 years old and still have good hearing. I am careful to wear hearing protection at the range starting in the parking lot and I don't take my muffs off when the range is hot until I'm back in my car. Most of my high level noise exposure is aviation related, first as a Naval Fighter Pilot and later on as an International Airline Captain. Plus I've done a bit of automobile racing too. I've tried to do my best to protect my hearing and it seems to have worked pretty well.

I had the advantage of aviation physiology training when I first started in the Navy. A flight surgeon taught us all about potential hearing loss and I guess the lessons stuck. What I remember is that the human ear can withstand a great deal of low level noise, but it doesn't take too much exposure to really high level noise to cause permanent damage. They claim it is possible to experience damage from only one episode in severe cases. That means to me that shooters should take particular care to protect themselves. I also remember learning that foam plugs are effective only for relatively low levels of noise exposure and that muffs are mandatory in high noise areas.

But apparently not everyone has been as careful. I'm saddened to realize how many shooters at the range can hardly hear anything. Many of these hard-of-hearing gentlemen wear nothing but foam ear plugs. Some of the old timers yell so loudly at one another that I feel I should put my muffs back on even when the range is cold.
 
xs hedspace said:
Way back around 1962, I shot Hipower at Ft Bliss, Tex, and we used to put filter tips from cigarettes in our ears. Hardly useful, but the issue rubber plugs would get desert sand in them. Now I use a Walkers Game Ear as a hearing aid. Tested a few years ago, and they said I had 85% loss in the left, and 65% loss in the right ear. My tinnitus went from a high pitched whine to a sound like an oil burner running in the next room. Have to try the taurine fix....Nothing like 12 guys shooting a string of 200 yd Rapid with Garands to screw up yer ears! :eek:
Click to expand...


Same thing. Except for me it was 1963 at Camp Perry Ohio at the Nationals...no earplugs either...

Nuter important thing WEAR GOOD EYE PROTECTION too...


.
 
Hearing loss

I have high and low frequency loss in both ears. Caused by many years of exposure to noise from firearms. I Started shooting when I was 12 YOA.

There was an artillery fire base,consisting of two M109's,Tracked,155MM Howitzers, located about 50 yards from where we occasionally slept,in a tent, at Jackson Hole Vietnam. The fire missions were sporadic,but the noise was deafening. Nobody mentioned anything about hearing protection.

During pistol training at Quantico,Va in 69, we used .38 cal brass as hearing protection. The instructors explained that in real life situations,we would not be wearing hearing protection,so get used to the noise.:( The noise from a 2 inch revolver does more damage than a Rifle. because of close proximity to shooter.

I have the kind of hearing loss that affects my ability to locate the source of sound. In my old job,that kind of disability would get you a desk job.

You ever notice how loud some of these youngsters play their car stereo. You can hear the boom a Block away. Drive along beside them and none are wearing hearing protection. That noise has got be causing some damage. It seems these Kids feel the loudest is the coolest. I can feel the vibrations a block away.



Glenn
 
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Yes! I have comments!

I am a relative new-comer to Bench Rest ( long range) shooting as I started in about 2008.

However, I have 50 years experience as an electronics engineer designing analog integrated
circuits. The last 22 years I worked in the hearing industry. I attended the San Jose State University Graduate program in Audiology and got a hearing aid dispensing license. My last job was working for Etymotic Research, who does research and product development for the ear. And I continue to do contract work for them since I retired.

Both engineering as well as audiology abhors the use of anecdotal evidence and demands only clinical data, laboratory data or peer reviewed literature.

Unfortunately, about all you can read on Benchrest Central and Accurate Shooter about hearing protection IS anecdotal evidence! What is anecdotal evidence? That is when someone thinks, or my brother in law has a friend that said, or I do what John Smith does!

SO! First, there is NRR ratings. What do they mean? OSHA requires the manufacturers of hearing protection to put the NRR value on the package. NRR, Noise Reduction Rating, means the manufacturer must measure in a laboratory setting what the best noise attenuation that is possible with the device being tested. Then, they must experiment and find every way the device can be mis-used or installed improperly. The difference between the best performance minus the worst performance is indicated by a less than optimum value. Sometimes one can easily obtain a value better than the NRR value. An example is the old yello foamie plugs. These things are ironically about the best possible protection you can get PROVIDED they are inserted correctly! So, the NRR of maybe 26 dB can be increased to close to 40 dB just by reading the directions and being careful with insertion.

On the other hand, some devices with ratings in the 20's cannot be raised by better use practices. Guess what is in this class? The ear muffs! I know most folks use them, but it is virtually impossible to get a fit to YOUR skull without custom fitting. Also, the small muffs that are popular do not have physical construction capable of better noise reduction.

Many folks use muffs AND foamies. Total waste as the yello foamies inserted properly are all you need.

Why aren't muffs with foamies better? Simply that about 40 dB reduction is about as good as you can get as your mastoid bone ( around the ear area) transfers outside noises into the inner ear with about 40 dB reduction. So, if you filled your ear canal with plastic, you would not be able to go above 40 dB reduction. And, properly inserted foamies, and many other inexpensive plugs, afford reductions close to 38 dB. So, don't waste your money on muffs if you also use foamies.

There is a way to improve your muffs with built in compressor amplifiers (gain reduces as noise pressure increases) is to buy a pair of Etymotic ER-20 HI-FI plugs and wear your electronic muffs over them.
This practice gives you two things of importance. One, the combined 26 NRR of the muff adds to the 20 dB reduction of the ER-20 and you are now bumping into the 40dB maximum limited by the old mastoid bone. And, two, you now can hear clearly as the ER-20 is designed to afford good fidelity. This is important as many of you have noticed, yello foamies sound very muffled. This is because the mastoid bone has very poor high frequency response. And, the gain of the muff amplifier is about the same as the attenuation of the ER-20 so with no one firing, you can hear normally! You can hear the guy on the next bench talking to you. And when folks down the firing line shoot, the gain of the muff amplifier decreases till finally when you or your neighbor shoot, the effective noise reduction is, you guessed, about 40 dB as good as your mastoid bone will allow!


What do I use? I use an Etymotic Research noise blaster. This is a one size fits all hearing aid with out a vent through it like hearing aids have to eliminate occlusion effect. One caveat, the choice of ear tips( a selection comes with the set) is very important to obtain maximum noise reduction. They are rated at 25dB NRR. This low rating reflects using the wrong ear tip for your ear/canal. The best reduction is with the foam tip. as these get pretty grotty with use, I use the three tiered "mushroom." Carefully inserted I might add!

Yes, these cost about $300 or so on the street. most other electronic plugs are way more expensive, but the Etymotic GSP-15 uses an analog amplifier which allows them to be approved by law enforcement and the military due to their clinically tested and approved maintaining the "situational Awareness" necessary in a dangerous environment. Most folks don't know that digital devices used for hearing aids and hearing protection have time delays through the amplifier that can be different in each ear which results in lack of properly localizing a sound. Not a problem with a quality analog amplifier. Also, as few people don't know,
hearing aids, and similar devices, that use digital amplifiers are adjusted to yield a battery life of one week. This is an industry standard for battery life. This causes the logic to run at a speed that does not allow proper fidelity! Most all digital hearing aids have poor fidelity with high frequency responses of only 6-8 kHz.
And, the delay time in the amplifier can be noticeable.

I have a lot of money invested in stocks, barrels, actions, scopes and many other expensive equipment. Isn't it smart to invest $300 or so to protect your hearing as well as making hearing more comfortable?
 
I can hear perfectly fine with amplified muffs over properly inserted Howard Leight foam plugs that are rated at 33 db. I can hear well enough to hear range commands with low profile, shotgun style muffs (rated about 21 db) over the same plugs. I do not need research results to tell me that when I put the muffs on over plugs that things get quieter. That quiet makes it easier to concentrate on my shooting, without being distracted by what is going on around me. At that point, whether I need the additional protection for my hearing is irrelevant. The people who have had some relief from tinnitus from taking taurine tried it on the basis of being told of a properly done study. Of course their reports of it working for them were anecdotal. Most of the decisions that we make are based on our evaluations of incomplete information. Somehow we manage to do pretty well that way. The idea that one needs proper scientific evidence to proceed with just about everything is silly. Of course one should check out anything that one is going to ingest, but in this age of easy internet research, that takes no time at all.
 
A one size fits all hearing aid is as useful as a one size fits all shoe. As Boyd stated, muffs over foam plugs is the way to go. The industry in which I work has a couple of areas that require double hearing protection. The signs are big and clearly worded. "Double hearing protection required beyond this point". Without the muffs over the foam plugs, you won't stay in either area very long. If a member from the safety department caught you there in violation of the requirement, your employment would be terminated!
 
Well Boyd,

Your reply tells me that you don't know how to properly insert the foam plugs. If you did it correctly, you would have a noise reduction of not 33 which is the rated NRR for the foam plugs, but the 38 dB or so with correct insertion.
If you have a noticeable reduction with the muffs on, you probably are getting the 33 dB from the plugs with the extra -5 dB you would have with in-correct insertion. Bear in mind, the difference Limon for human hearing is 2 dB. What that means in regular speak is that 50% of the adult population can recognize a 2 dB change in Sound Pressure Level.

Me? I'll stick with clinical data instead of you guy's anecdotal data. I know from clinical data that ear muffs are
unsafe without ear plugs! But, if you wear ear plugs with correct insertion, you don't need the muffs
 
You are so full of it. I gave you the number that came on the packaging. How the heck would I be able to measure the actual amount of attenuation? As a matter of fact, I have done some experimenting with a modification that allows me to seat them deeper and still be able to remove them easily. This is particularly good because I have come to the conclusion that my left ear canal is a bit large at its outer end, and that I may not have been getting the best results because of that. My method of measurement was comparing how much quieter fired shots were both ways. We use the tools that we have, and hopefully some good sense. Bottom line, I have a number of ways to deal with the noise from shooting, and I have compared them all, and use what makes things quietest. I believe my ears.
 
Boyd,

Don't get so excited!

I was just commenting that if you "noticed" an improvement with the muff, you weren't getting the best reduction, but probably the 33 NRR on the box label. But, If you DID correctly insert them, you wouldn't notice any difference with the muff as the ear plugs would have brought you to the maximum based on Mastoid bone conduction. And, yes, there has to be an improvement of more than 2 dB typically to notice a difference.

By the way, it is not trivial to get ear plugs "correctly" inserted!
 
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