set up HBR & VFS same gun???

A

alinwa

oft dis'd member
So I've started finishing (is that an oxymoron??) an HBR project that died on the vine yrs back...... McMillan Hunter stock, Bordenized (by Borden) 700, weird alinwa chambering...... the gun shoots teeeeny tiny dots using high powered scope(s)

I also just bought and brought home a travel trailer last week.... Mean the Wife plan on driving to a few matches.....

Is it possible or logical to mount a modern variable scope that spans from less than 6X to 24X or 36X or something more appropriate for VFS?
 
Al,
yes it is feasible as long as it makes the 10 lb weight limit for the hunter class. VFS you have 13.5 lbs so it will definitely make that weight limit. You have two of the top score shooters in the country in WA state, both live near Chelan WA and one of them shoots a hunter gun, that makes weight and then for VFS just pulls the 6x scope and slides on a 36x scope. I think his son has 2 guns. Our NW region has a bunch of score shooters and shoots.
 
Riverwolf1 said:
Al,
yes it is feasible as long as it makes the 10 lb weight limit for the hunter class. VFS you have 13.5 lbs so it will definitely make that weight limit. You have two of the top score shooters in the country in WA state, both live near Chelan WA and one of them shoots a hunter gun, that makes weight and then for VFS just pulls the 6x scope and slides on a 36x scope. I think his son has 2 guns. Our NW region has a bunch of score shooters and shoots.
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Do you know which 6x?
 
Al, I will find the equipment list from the Nationals I held in LaGrande , OR tomorrow and get back to you. I am pretty sure they were Leupold.
 
Riverwolf1 said:
Al, I will find the equipment list from the Nationals I held in LaGrande , OR tomorrow and get back to you. I am pretty sure they were Leupold.
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Well that's the thing.... I know I can make weight with the 36 and them big ol 6Xs look just as heavy.....but I've never had one so I don't know really....
 
The old Leupold MX-8 6X with T/T and AO had steel tubes and were a bit heavier. the new FX series 6X is much lighter now. The other 6X that weighed a lot was the old Weaver 6X’s made in ElPaso, TX. and there is still quite a few of those that show up in matches.
 
I’m really new to the HBR game, last year was my first go at it. But the M8 leupolds I got, both were used, have both weighed 15oz. Most of the fixed 36x and up scopes I’ve had have ran 20-22oz. Not sure if that’ll help you any.
 
willytp said:
I’m really new to the HBR game, last year was my first go at it. But the M8 leupolds I got, both were used, have both weighed 15oz. Most of the fixed 36x and up scopes I’ve had have ran 20-22oz. Not sure if that’ll help you any.
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I believe you're right...... the new M8 and/or FX series are wikkid light at around 15oz.

Now..... in browsing Leupolds I'm seeing the Mark AR Mod1 6-18X40 at around 15.5 oz...... for about a hundred dollars more.

FX-6 or M8 (Leupold nomenclature confuses me) in 6X SEEMS to be around 15ox

6-16X40 (Leup # 115394) SEEMS to be just a half ounce heavier but with added facility to test at 18X or even shoot VFS in a pinch.

I'm just wondering if there are other, newer maybe better, options than the straight 6X since I'm starting from scratch.
 
Al,
I was looking for the specs on the FX-3 6x42 last night and was shocked to find on the Leupold web site that they have dis continued the FX-3 6x42 hunter scope! I immediately started checking a few suppliers and found that there seems to be none available.
 
Riverwolf1 said:
Al,
I was looking for the specs on the FX-3 6x42 last night and was shocked to find on the Leupold web site that they have dis continued the FX-3 6x42 hunter scope! I immediately started checking a few suppliers and found that there seems to be none available.
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Yeahh, which makes it even more confusing on my end...... between year-to-year changes, nomenclature and discontinued's I'm just trying to make an informed choice TODAY or do I need to start haunting the classifieds for used stuff.... (I prefer new when possible.... "my own problems" and all that)
 
alinwa said:
Yeahh, which makes it even more confusing on my end...... between year-to-year changes, nomenclature and discontinued's I'm just trying to make an informed choice TODAY or do I need to start haunting the classifieds for used stuff.... (I prefer new when possible.... "my own problems" and all that)
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Al, sadly, but understandably (there never were too many of us), there are, to my knowledge, no currently manufactured, straight 6X optics, featuring "adjustable paralax" - your best bet is a reliable used scope. In my experience, the BEST was the Burris HBR II (about 17 Oz.), with the "Tucker type", 45* turret spring: most of those scopes hold ZERO, and have reliable, repeatable clicks. Second choice would be a, "blue-printed", Weaver T-6 (usually about 19 Oz.). The Leupold offerings would be last in my line - they did make a few with 1/8th" clicks - most were more coarse, and they featured actual 5.4X magnification, with mediocre resolution. As determined via various "resolution" charts, the Burris offerings had measurably better resolution, and the actual magnification was slightly greater than 6X: +2 in favor of the HBR IIs.

One issue with the variable types is reticle selection - almost invariably HUGE at 6X! :eek: When announced, I purchased a NF 3-10, or, 3.5-10 (??)- can't recall, but was SHV: in modern vernacular, "it sucked" . . . would be OK on huntin' rig . . . :p RG
 
Al Nyhus said:
alinwa: There's a nice Leupold 6X A.O. Competition Hunter with a dot on ebay right now. This one has 1/4" adjustments....later ones had 1/8" adjustments. I shot both styles for several years with zero issues.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leupold-6x...161996?hash=item5469bbb48c:g:UrcAAOSwMMNcWy8M

P.S. If it's still on there tomorrow, it's coming home with me. Just sayin'.... ;) -Al
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Thank You Al FTFT....... Ya Done Me A Solid Here :)

I pulled the trigger on this one.

BTW..... I don't care about the 1/4" kliks but is there a choice/preference for dot size??? 1/8 or 1/16?

Either way, I'll be trying this one.

thanxagain
 
Ali was
usually most prefer a small dot like 1/8, and because it’s a leupold you can have a reticle change done for $65.00 and the scope carries the lifetime warranty.
 
Riverwolf1 said:
Ali was
usually most prefer a small dot like 1/8, and because it’s a leupold you can have a reticle change done for $65.00 and the scope carries the lifetime warranty.
Click to expand...

Well that's perty cool because I bought a Leupold VX3i 4.5X14X40 CDS 30MM Side Focus Wind Plex Fine Crosshair Leupold #170702 last nite at Spurtsman's and I can compare them..... if the new one is remarkably better then I can have the crosshair changed out.
 
alinwa said:
Thank You Al FTFT....... Ya Done Me A Solid Here :)

BTW..... I don't care about the 1/4" kliks but is there a choice/preference for dot size??? 1/8 or 1/16?
thanxagain
Click to expand...

All tallied, I had ten scopes on my HBR gun through the years. Here's my 2 cents worth:

I used the 3/8 dot on my Premier modified M8 Leupold, the Burris HBR and HBR2 scopes I tried and both of my Sightron 6X's. When Leupold came out with the Competition Hunter, my first one (1/4" clicks) had a 3/8 dot. When Leupold came out with the final version of the Competition Hunter (1/8" clicks), I snagged one of the first ones. It had a 1/2" dot which I also liked a lot.

Dot size is kind of a relative thing on these 6X scopes. Depending on the actual magnification (as Randy spoke to) a certain dot size can appear bigger or smaller when viewed against the 1/2" 10 ring on an IBS or NBRSA target.

I also used three of the 'new style' T6 Weavers that came out in the late '90's. They advertised a .210 dot size. In actuality, the dot covered a .30 cal bullet hole on target. They also had the best clarity and resolution of any of the scopes I tried. They weren't durable enough for the pounding, though. The good thing about them was when they went away, they really blew up....parts and pieces loose inside when you shook 'em. That's better that a sneaky one that just wanders around.

The bottom line is that a good 6X HBR scope is where you find 'em. ;) I expect that's even truer today.

Good shootin'. -Al
 
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Al Nyhus said:
All tallied, I had ten scopes on my HBR gun through the years. Here's my 2 cents worth:

I used the 3/8 dot on my Premier modified M8 Leupold, both of the Burris HBR and HBR2 scopes I tried and both of my Sightron 6X's. When Leupold came out with the Competition Hunter, my first one (1/4" clicks) had a 3/8 dot. When Leupold came out with the final version of the Competition Hunter (1/8" clicks), I snagged one of the first ones. It had a 1/2" dot which I also liked a lot.

Dot size is kind of a relative thing on these 6X scopes. Depending on the actual magnification (as Randy spoke to) a certain dot size can appear bigger or smaller when viewed against the 1/2" 10 ring on an IBS or NBRSA target.

I also used three of the 'new style' T6 Weavers that came out in the late '90's. They advertised a .210 dot size. In actuality, the dot covered a .30 cal bullet hole on target. They also had the best clarity and resolution of any of the scopes I tried. They weren't durable enough for the pounding, though. The good thing about them was when the went away, they really blew up....parts and pieces loose inside when you shook 'em. That's better that a sneaky one that just wanders around.

The bottom line is that a good 6X HBR scope is where you find 'em. ;) I expect that's even truer today.

Good shootin'. -Al
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Well thank you for all that!

Good Stuff

I will be getting some 'first impressions' in the next few days/weeks. Your information gives me stuff to consider.
 
I had Wally Siebert

R.G. Robinett said:
Al, sadly, but understandably (there never were too many of us), there are, to my knowledge, no currently manufactured, straight 6X optics, featuring "adjustable paralax" - your best bet is a reliable used scope. In my experience, the BEST was the Burris HBR II (about 17 Oz.), with the "Tucker type", 45* turret spring: most of those scopes hold ZERO, and have reliable, repeatable clicks. Second choice would be a, "blue-printed", Weaver T-6 (usually about 19 Oz.). The Leupold offerings would be last in my line - they did make a few with 1/8th" clicks - most were more coarse, and they featured actual 5.4X magnification, with mediocre resolution. As determined via various "resolution" charts, the Burris offerings had measurably better resolution, and the actual magnification was slightly greater than 6X: +2 in favor of the HBR IIs.

One issue with the variable types is reticle selection - almost invariably HUGE at 6X! :eek: When announced, I purchased a NF 3-10, or, 3.5-10 (??)- can't recall, but was SHV: in modern vernacular, "it sucked" . . . would be OK on huntin' rig . . . :p RG
Click to expand...

when he was alive(God rest his kind soul) do work on several scopes for me. He was a peach to deal with. Anyway, we were talking about the old steel tube T El Paso Weavers that he and Ackerman blue printed. I asked him why he thought they were so good. His comment was, "if you could see how they were built internally you would know." I had no reason to question him. I have one and he's been right so far. Draw back? 1/4' click adjustments.
 
glp said:
when he was alive(God rest his kind soul) do work on several scopes for me. He was a peach to deal with. Anyway, we were talking about the old steel tube T El Paso Weavers that he and Ackerman blue printed. I asked him why he thought they were so good. His comment was, "if you could see how they were built internally you would know." I had no reason to question him. I have one and he's been right so far. Draw back? 1/4' click adjustments.
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I still have one T-6, blue-printed by Bill, five of the original Burris "Mini" HBR, one of the first HBR II (without the "Tucker" type spring), and two HBR II with the 45* spring: all of these scopes, "work" - won't be for sale until I'm qualified for one of the two BIG teams.;)

The variable scopes need to have a pretty small [high end] reticle subtension: halving the power, presuming a second focal plane model, doubles the reticle size - 1/2" at 12X becomes 1.0" at 6x!:eek: On a first focal palne optic, it's highly unlikely to find anything close to useful on a Hunter/VfS target, as the reticles are relatively large. The bugaboo with NF, is that they seem unwilling to change the reticle to a useful size. This, a willingness to change reticles, is where Leupold becomes more desirable.;)

I agree with Greg - once accustomed to 1/8th", 1/4" clicks are pretty coarse.:p Per Al's comment, 1/2" dot isn't all that bad - especially for over 60 eyes. When the original Burris Mini 6x HBR was in the development stage, I sent the engineer a Lyman 6x, with, TK Lee dot reticle: supposedly a 1/4 MOA - the Burris folks measured the actual subtension at 0.375", thus, the 3/8th MOA Burris dot.;) We need all the Hunter shooters we can get!:) Keep 'em ON the X! RG
 
R.G. Robinett said:
.....all of these scopes, "work" - won't be for sale until I'm qualified for one of the two BIG teams.;) RG
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Laffin', here...now I have coffee all over my keyboard! ;)

The only caveat I'd add on the Leupold Competition Hunter is pay close attention to the occular. On my last one, it tended to loosen up no matter how tight I had the lock ring. Further examination showed the tube threads to be very, very shallow...the lock nut wanted to 'ride over' the threads if you go too aggressive with it. Several other shooters experienced the same thing. If the parallax gets wonky, this is the first thing to check. My fix was a couple dabs of clear nail polish and all was well.


I've seen an occular swaddled with black electrical tape on a different brand... :eek:

For a new 6 power A.O. scope, the SWFA Tactical line has a couple of 'maybes'. They both feature etched reticles and they have a reputation for rock solid repeatability, holding zero and good optical quality. The MOA Quad has 1/4 MOA adjustments and the Mil Quad has .10 Mil adjustments. Both reticles are not exactly what we'd spec for a HBR scope but the MOA might work. They are 30 mm tubes and 20 oz. with rear parallax adjustment and very reasonable pricing.

https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-6x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope-3.html

https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-6x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope-105767.html

Stay warm. -Al
 
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