Sandblasting Ammo

J

J. Chapman

Guest
How many barrels have you replaced in the last two years? If you have not replaced a barrel, have you lost accuracy?

I have been talking with several shooters who seem to be replacing their barrels at an alarming rate. It appears that some shooters aren't even getting a full year of competition out of a new barrel. What seems to be the problem? I have notice that over the past couple of years, there seems to be a lot of gritty residue left in the barrel from the ammo. It appears that the primer (I think it is the primer anyhow) is leaving a very sandy like material in the barrel, when the next round is fired, it is pushing this grit into the barrel and seems to be sandblasting the barrel. If you can, take a bore scope and look at your barrel. I think you will find what appears to be sandblasting at 6:00 down the barrel.

I have pushed a patch through and collected this material from a couple lots of my ammo. My ammo is two years old. I have some Lapua and Black box Eley. Every lot of ammo that I tried had this real gritty substance in the barrel. I then used some of my old Gold box Lapua. It was completely different. The residue left behind seemed to be more of a powder material. I know people who (when we use to have the gold box Lapua) had over 50,000 rounds down the barrel and it was still shooting well. Now, it seems that if you get 5,000 rounds through a barrel you have done well.

I believe our ammo is killing our barrels. Has anyone else noticed this and what can we do about it?
 
Sorry, I did not see the thread dated 03/03/10 about this same problem
 
Chapman: For a while now I have been noticeing this same problem. I went to the Eley webb sight and asked 2 questions. Why was the ammo priced so high to the U S and Do you use powdered glass for the priming mixture ? They have yet to answer my questions. I sent Bob Collins an e-mail and asked him the same questions and have not heard from him either. garrisone.
 
There are two solutions.First is stop using Eley.Second is to revert back to the more severe old style rifling that doesn't wear out as quickly.Unfortunately today that puts you mid pack at best.You know the old saying "you wanna play you gotta pay".Go to the rimfire accuracy site and read the thread on barrel wear.
 
Gentlemen,

Thanks for the responses.

Garrisone: It will be interesting to see if Eley ever responds to your questions and what their answers will be. Please let us know if they respond.

Ernie: I am also noticing the gritty residue in my blue box Lapua. So, Eley is not the only manufacturer producing ammo with the "grit". I don't mean to flame, but if we take the "you wanna play you gotta pay" attitude, then how will we attract new shooters to our sport? How do we get other interested in shooting if we tell them they need to buy a $3,500 + rifle, equip it with a $350+ scope, buy all the extras for another $500.+, not to mention the $1,500 you will spend a year testing and buy ammo. Then tell them to get ready to spend another $1,000+ per year replacing their barrels (This would include the cost of the barrel, gunsmithing fee and setting the tuner)? I think you will have to agree these figures are on the low side. Now add in the cost for one of those darn sporters…….we are paying to play.

I hate to say it, but we are not gaining new shooters in my area. In fact, one of the clubs that I really enjoyed shooting at is no longer holding matches. Several of those top shooters have left the sport.

Again, I am not looking to flame, just hoping for a solution.
 
J.

J. Chapman said:
Gentlemen,

Thanks for the responses.

Garrisone: It will be interesting to see if Eley ever responds to your questions and what their answers will be. Please let us know if they respond.

Ernie: I am also noticing the gritty residue in my blue box Lapua. So, Eley is not the only manufacturer producing ammo with the "grit". I don't mean to flame, but if we take the "you wanna play you gotta pay" attitude, then how will we attract new shooters to our sport? How do we get other interested in shooting if we tell them they need to buy a $3,500 + rifle, equip it with a $350+ scope, buy all the extras for another $500.+, not to mention the $1,500 you will spend a year testing and buy ammo. Then tell them to get ready to spend another $1,000+ per year replacing their barrels (This would include the cost of the barrel, gunsmithing fee and setting the tuner)? I think you will have to agree these figures are on the low side. Now add in the cost for one of those darn sporters…….we are paying to play.

I hate to say it, but we are not gaining new shooters in my area. In fact, one of the clubs that I really enjoyed shooting at is no longer holding matches. Several of those top shooters have left the sport.

Again, I am not looking to flame, just hoping for a solution.
Click to expand...

You are right, shooting our little rimfires is expensive. Especially, if you want to be competitive. But when you compare shooting to other hobbies such as golf, boating, or auto racing it isn't that bad.

Attracting new shooters is a real problem and I don't know the solution.

Tony
 
Regarding new shooters/new members, this was all discussed back in Oct. 09 on a thread in General discussion titled HD video: Caldwell Rock BR benchrest.
Its about cost IMO, do new shooters really want to pop for all the equipment required to the amount of $5,000 in todays economy? Crying out loud the unemployment rate is up again today. This ain't over yet.
 
This is a interesting topic, even more so on the other forum. Here;'s what i think, it's all a Conspiracy, Eley is purposely putting glass in their priming compound so we have to replace our barrels every 5,000 rds to be competitive, let alone the rising prices.With that said the barrel manufactures are selling more barrels and can't keep up, and soon the quality is diminished.

That above statement may sound foolish but as long as I've been shooting this game which is about 6 years there has always been pitting, with some barrel's showing more excessive pitting then others. Why this sudden interest, we see a interest in what Bill Calfee calls his MI barrels, and if they become the new killer barrels, folks will have to have one. The relentless pursuit of accuracy never ends.

This is a game of choices, one must continually seperate the important from the unimportant, thinking about and acting on the important, while letting go of the unimportant. If being on top in this game is that important in your life, then yes you will have to pay to play it.

Joe
 
jcwit said:
Regarding new shooters/new members, this was all discussed back in Oct. 09 on a thread in General discussion titled HD video: Caldwell Rock BR benchrest.
Its about cost IMO, do new shooters really want to pop for all the equipment required to the amount of $5,000 in todays economy? Crying out loud the unemployment rate is up again today. This ain't over yet.
Click to expand...

This is far from over.
 
This is a game of choices, one must continually seperate the important from the unimportant, thinking about and acting on the important, while letting go of the unimportant. If being on top in this game is that important in your life, then yes you will have to pay to play it.
Click to expand...

Attracting new shooters is a real problem and I don't know the solution.
Click to expand...

Anyone see a link with these two?
 
garrisone said:
Chapman: For a while now I have been noticeing this same problem. I went to the Eley webb sight and asked 2 questions. Why was the ammo priced so high to the U S and Do you use powdered glass for the priming mixture ? They have yet to answer my questions. I sent Bob Collins an e-mail and asked him the same questions and have not heard from him either. garrisone.
Click to expand...

Hya Mate,

since living in the UK and visiting Eley on a regualar basis the problem with the Price is the cost of lead that has gone up over the last year with China buying most of it. Eley have held of price increase for along as they could but this is how it is now and with the UK economy as it and fuel going through the roof everything is going up in price.

AndyD
 
Sandblasting Ammo & New Shooters

Guys:

I'm supposed to take my inferior equipment, practice once every 6 weeks (if I'm lucky), drive for however far and shoot against guys with unlimited resources, guys that shoot every day at their own ranges.

Sounds about like a tooth extraction with no happy juice - just so much fun I can't even think about it.

Can't attract new shooters? No real mystery. $$$$$$!

If one has the $$ and wants to spend it that way, more power to them.

Jim
 
>>with the Price is the cost of lead that has gone up over the last year with China buying most of it<<

China has to buy lots of lead -- they need it to put into our children's toys :(
 
Well, China may have bought a lot of lead for whatever purpose, but the cost of lead has next to nothing to do with Eley's prices. There is not much more than a few nickels worth of lead in $16 box of Tenex. And the price of lead has plummeted from it's high in October of 2007. The price of ammo? Not so much...

http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=lead&months=60
 
Eley barrel wear

If there is excessive barrel wear with the new Eley shouldnt the
Eley factory need to replace their test barrels more often?
Any way to find out that information? Looks like they would be the first to
know.
 
This is funny, almost comical. A few yrs ago I bought a Benchmark 17.5 twist based on comments on this board, best barrel since sliced bread; it turned out to be garbage. Next barrel everyone had to have was the tight bore, so I jumped on that, now, apparently, the tite bore is garbage. I'm sure the phone is ringing off the hook at Tim North's house. It's just the way the beast is, like buying a laptop, a camera, whatever, as soon as you get it, it's obsolete. Thanks, Douglas
 
I just wanted to know why eley prices for ammo is so high in the us and if they use powdered glass in their priming mixture. These questions are not unreasonable ouestions to ask. I think i know the real answer but i will just sit back and wait and suffer through all the crap as to why just asking a question will cause all of us that want answers so much greif: Thanks for the help. Garrisone.
 
Douglas,
I think the constant search for improvements is a good activity, it's just that some people jump to conclusions before the task is complete. I have fit several 17.5 twist barrels for shooters and they are doing very well with them. One 30 year veteran shooter even said it was the best barrel he ever had. It is still somewhat luck of the draw when it comes to getting a good barrels every time, and of course the way it is assembled can make a big difference.

Jeffrey
 
Douglas

Douglas said:
This is funny, almost comical. A few yrs ago I bought a Benchmark 17.5 twist based on comments on this board, best barrel since sliced bread; it turned out to be garbage. Next barrel everyone had to have was the tight bore, so I jumped on that, now, apparently, the tite bore is garbage. I'm sure the phone is ringing off the hook at Tim North's house. It's just the way the beast is, like buying a laptop, a camera, whatever, as soon as you get it, it's obsolete. Thanks, Douglas
Click to expand...

Don't be disheartened. The Benchmarks and tight bore Lilja's have both won plenty of matches, and they can win plenty more.

Sure some guys have to have the "latest and greatest" and that is fine.

But always remember "shooters win matches" not barrels.

Tony
 
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