Reverse Engineering

C

cris

Guest
With many rimfire shooters participating in air rifle benchrest now, a thought.

The rimfire guys seem to have some success, a 250-24X is pretty good, with checking air density and changing tuner settings. Now I know the greatest rimfire gunsmith says that a tuner never needs to be moved once it is in the perfect spot but.............................

Is anyone looking at air density and their tuner settings? It might be a little humid in South Carolina.
 
Isn't "Reverse Engineering" just a liberal term for copying? Anyhow, I suspect humidity might have some affect on a pellet's flight, but I sure doubt it has an affect on barrel harmonics, unless we are discussing the possiblity on a springer or pump-up gun. I suspect air density changes that do not affect muzzle velocity will not affect barrel vibration factors.

Air density is primarily affected by temperature, with hotter air being "thinner". A VERY' popular misconception s that humid air is "thicker" (more dense) than dry air, but in fact, hot humid air is LESS dense than hot dry air of the same temperature.
 
I would believe that most rimfire benchrest shooters that have found success with this method have also mastered the basic meteorological concepts.

With the Open/Unlimited class, there could be some benefit in changing speeds as air density changes. Tuner/air stripper settings are also prime candidates for experimentation.

I agree that air density values have no effect on barrel harmonics but a pellet is simply a smaller chunk of lead, just like a rimfire bullet, they must fly through this sea of air,hence, the reference to reverse engineering. If I am copying someone else's work, then consider it my sincerest form of flattery.
 
I'm a retired Engineer. Your citing "copying someone else's work" in relating observations and reactions to phenomenon observed using a different shooting system drops a flag for me. As I see it, many, if not most rimfire AND airgun benchrest shooters are frequently looking for arcane things to change in effort to improve their scores, but most of the "work" isnt scientific. Even were there to be a proven relationship between poi shifts with humidity and the efficacy of barrel tuner changes for rimfire shooters, I just can't related to calling the practice "design", or a work. You are sitting behind the gun and things change ... you have a gizmo on the end of your barrel you can re-adjust ... how bright does one need to be to try moving it around? It's not a body of work to me, unless its backed up by repeatable tests.

I have fooled with tuners on airguns for decades ... sometimes they work GREAT, and sometimes they don't. I have NEVER been able to prove there are any specific situations where they always work. I know if a gun gets better, its a good thing, but I don't know why they improve some and degrade others.

Note: I separate adjustable tuners from brakes set in a certain position and not menat to be reset for varioous conditions.
 
I also come from a very structured engineering discipline and fully recognize that little of what benchrest shooters do is scientifically based. What works for one barrel/rifle combination may not work for another, even another of the same make and model. While it may be termed anecdotal, does not mean the results are not real.

However, knowing that it worked, even once, shows it might happen again and that inspires confidence. In addition, with the projected life span of air rifle barrels, a simple trend could be a harbinger of good things in the future. Air rifle benchrest may not be new but we are seeing more work by more shooters than ever before. Your benchrest spec barrel was just the beginning. Shooters using rimfire spec barrels have shown great promise. Tuners and air strippers are another area where the results are difficult to argue over. With all due respect, it is hard for me to accept that bicycle chain wax is the best we can do for a quality pellet lube. I may never equal your years of experience but half the fun is in the trying.
 
I personally introduced Krytech lube to US airgunners back in 1998. Its likely its not still the best, maybe it it was never the best, but it was the best I ever tried for powerful airguns, esp springers (I don't think weak airguns NEED lube on pellets). Anyhow, back in the day, I did a good bit of testing, and dismissed FP10, Whiscombe Honey, Lube one, Pledge furniture polish, Ballistol, and STP in a marathon testing effort that lasted about a year. Lots of others were also studying pellet lubes, but curiously, ALL of them were looking at cleaning patches ... I was the only one to ignore patches and look at fifty yard groups.

I've been waiting for word of that better lube. There's talk that some benchrest airgunners claim to know of it, but apparently, must jealously guard their secret. I used Die #2 Premier 10.5's for my HV rig today.
 
Well, now that we are on a completely different tangent, pellets will be the next important horizon.

What makes Crosman die #2 the holy grail of pellets? Head size, skirt size, a ratio of both, length to weight or some combination of all these factors. We need a manufacturer to understand the accuracy requirements of benchrest and not complain that we are 1% of the business and 99% of the complaints. We need consistent pellets made with precision machined dies that are capable of being shipped with little or no damage. Those dies will need inspection more than the pellets and replaced at the first sign of wear. Yes, I fully understand that these pellets will not be priced at $12.00 per tin of 500. No, they will never be perfect, but surely, modern technology can be brought to bear to produce a higher quality, more consistent pellet.

Then again, we have seen 4 scores of 250 shot by 3 different individuals, at least one of which does what we affectionately call "tofu tuning", he simply pulls pellets straight from the tin. You can contrast this with "Texas tuning", which involves washing pellets in solvent, cleaning the skirt and cavity, weight sorting and applying "kryptonite" lube with a brush. Now this shooter may be in the upper echelon but how many nearly perfect scores have been squashed by an unexplained miss/misses during a condition that has resulted in nothing but 10s.

Lubes are a different story. some use cooking spray and some use nothing. Again, another situation where every barrel/rifle combination is different. Never used Pam, I tried Krytech, seemed to work well and the fact it would completely dry was a plus. I don't use it anymore but I would never say that my "secret sauce" works better in every case. Let's see if the top shooters in South Carolina are willing to share their keys to success.
 
Last Saturday afternoon I shot a practice target with my HV rig and got 249/14X in VERY windy conditions, yet the next morning I could barely get within five points of that with less than half the wind using exactly the same setup. Yes, I guess I too use "tofu tuning", shooting straight from the tin, except when using Crosman pellets (which I feel NEED lube). I don't often bother to clean, weigh, or inspect pellets, feeling-wind doping is more important in most cases ... though I DO weigh for more important (FT) matches.
 
pellet docterin'

Let me see if I get ths straight...................you won't wash/ weigh /sort etc. to shoot a .060 ten ring but you will to shoot .25 hole.


It's just got to be in the water.
 
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