Rem. 700 bolt issue

W

wolf creek

Guest
Went to the range yesterday, sighted in my .20 Practical, Rem. 700 short action, and all was fine. Went looking for woodchucks, found one and tried to chamber a round. The bolt pushed the round into the chamber but would not engage the lugs, could not push the bolt handle down nor could I pull the bolt back, there is a mechanical lock of some sort. The bolt handle will move up and down maybe 3/8" (turns the bolt body maybe 1/8 revolution). Took the trigger off, no issue there. It is not an over sized case, loaded (full length sized) them all before going to the range. There is no resistance when moving the bolt handle up and down what little it will move. It feels like metal to metal when trying to engage the lugs or pull the bolt back.
Any ideas?
 
I think you probably have a case stuck in the chamber far enough out to prevent picking up the action camming ramps. The extractor is hooked on the rim of the case preventing you from withdrawing the bolt. Make sure you have the bolt rotated full ccw and use a plastic mallet or screwdriver handle to tap the bolt handle and free the stuck case. You'll probably find trash of some kind between the case and chamber.
 
make sure the front action screw isnt too long, sticking up into the bolt lug recess, if thats not it, go see your gunsmith.
 
Hope I'm not to late.

Tapping on a Remington bolt handle just might pop it right off, then you will have another problem.
 
John S said:
Hope I'm not to late.

Tapping on a Remington bolt handle just might pop it right off, then you will have another problem.
Click to expand...

If a bolt handle pops off from a tap there is already a problem. Best to find out and correct at one's leisure and not in the middle of some event or activity.
 
John S said:
Hope I'm not to late.

Tapping on a Remington bolt handle just might pop it right off, then you will have another problem.
Click to expand...

Not too late, however, I have thought about doing that (as a result of Greg's answer) and am aware of the problems Rem has had with bolt handles coming off.
It's not the action screw, the action is out of the stock.
My research ( a 2008 thread on this forum) reflects Greg's suggestion (stuck case) is the most likley culprit. Another cause that some have experienced is the ejector retaining pin coming partly out and locking the action up.
The gun is at a gunsmith, but I have concerns about his compentcy.
I am thinking the most prudent avenue may be to have the barrel removed, if I had a Wheeler type action wrench, I would try it. May have a gunsmith do it. Thanks for the replies.
 
I've had similar stuff happen to me, unfortunately out in the field after the wily sod poodle, and "fixed" the problem by opening the bolt all the way and tapping the bullet with a cleaning rod down the barrel. It screws up that round, but since it was the problem anyway it didn't really matter.

I thought that my cases were all sized properly too, but they weren't.
 
I heard about a guy blew hisself up tapping out a loaded round....... any truth to that or am I mis'membering again?

al
 
alinwa said:
I heard about a guy blew hisself up tapping out a loaded round....... any truth to that or am I mis'membering again?

al
Click to expand...

Al,

As I remember it he was tapping on a loaded round that was stuck in the chamber and the bolt was out of the rifle, how that came about is beyond my meager imagination. The round fired, and since the path of least resistance was out the back the case departed from the chamber, hit the guy's wife who was standing behind the rifle in the chest and killed her. :(Outside of removing the barrel from the action I'm not smart enough to figure out another way to remove a stuck round. Most gunsmiths that I've heard of aren't exactly hot on the idea of unscrewing a barrel that contains a loaded round either. Can't say I blame 'em.

I sure wouldn't stand in front of or over a cleaning rod while tapping out a loaded round that's for sure. If the bolt handle can be opened all the way it's probably safest to stand the rifle on it's butt and drop the rod, minus jag, 6 or 8 inches onto the round. If it does go bang a guy'd be out a cleaning rod and likely in need of some clean underwear and pants :eek:, but still alive to tell about it.
 
Some of the comments I have already read give me cold shivers.
A suggestion may be to remove the shroud and firing pin assembly first.
Pushing the bullet back in the case neck and flooding the case with a solvent like Kroil or water will kill both the powder and primer.
Do not compress the powder. Use non conductive or non ferrous rod.
I too have read several articles about fatalities from folks doing dumb things.
It is easy enough to remove the barrel from the action.
Remember a primer can fire with the case crushing it while being turned in an action wrench.

Using a hammer or larger wrench usually meas something is going to get broken or damaged.

Nat Lambeth

Nat lambeth
 
To get back to the OP a liddle.... if one DOES have to tap (hammer, bash) the bolt open by impacting the bolt handle (yes, I've done it) then I've found it to be hoovis to find a wood block and whittle it to fit snugly against the BASE of the bolt handle, down in the slot, as opposed to whacking it out on the end.......... simple leverage........ Hitting the end, the knob, moves the leverage out which creates two problems: #1 it increases the leverage in a way which stresses the handle attachment point as well as transmitting LESS force to moving the bolt and #2 it puts the bolt body itself into a bind.

Proper technique IMO is to get near the BASE of the handle and use light taps, gradually increasing the force until something gives, either the case budges or the extractor breaks/lets go or the handle pops off.

Now, if you end up with a loaded round inside and the bolt-handle knocked off you've got a serious problem...... Sooooooo, I'd probably strap the rifle to a tire, cover it with a blanket and fire it with a string BEFORE knocking the handle off! WITH THE HANDLE DOWN. In fact, closing the handle down and just FIRING the round is probably the safest route anyroad. First off, it'll probably come open after firing and secondly if it doesn't, the bomb is deactivated.... :)

As far as killing the round with Kroil or solvent, don't count on it. I've had mixed success killing primers with ANYthing I could think of including Kroil.

And as for removing the shroud etc...... I can't picture exactly how this could be effected.

Maybe I'm missing something


al
 
Al,
I've been in the position (stupidly not having cases FL sized and VERY tight) where I could get the bolt about halfway closed, then stuck with the extractor firmly latched onto the rim, and ain't nothin' movin' in or out. If the bolt can be closed all the way, then obviously firing the round is the best thing to do. If the thing's still stuck, which isn't likely, there's nothing bad that can happen by tapping the case out with a cleaning rod.

Although I certainly believe that rounds have fired while someone is attempting to knock them out of a chamber it's got to be some sort of evil combination working for that to happen IMHO. Smokeless powder doesn't ignite through percussion. Put some on an anvil and whack it with a hammer, it's not igniting unless enough heat is generated. A high primer and beating the daylights out of the loaded round with a rod down the muzzle could sure lead to bad consequences. But brute force isn't going to do much good IMHO. I'll stick with standing the rifle muzzle up on a firm surface and dropping a ONE PIECE rod that's been carefully inserted into the muzzle onto the loaded round from 6" to 12", several times if necessary. Brute force isn't needed, and if it is it's time for a trip to the gunsmith, hat in hand, and wallet open.

If the bolt is in the rifle the only way I can see that the bolt shroud can be removed is by either cutting it off right behind the bolt handle or cutting the tang off the action to get at it. Neither of those seem like a reasonable thing to do, although sometimes reason has to, uh, take a vacation.
 
Any time that things are badly stuck a little thought is the first thing that needs to be applied. If a bolt is stuck shut on a live round the best idea is to complete the breech closure by forcing the bolt closed and fire the round. If the action can not be closed, then hammering open the bolt is still the best option. You may lose the bolt handle and I agree with Al that hammering close to the root of the bolt will probably get the bolt open without shedding the handle. If the bolt goes south, then you have to pull the barrel to get the round out. Once the bolt is out or the barrel removed, see my post on round removal. I am with Larry Elliot in that smokeless powder does not ignite unless a combination of heat and pressure combine - hammering doesn't cause a problem. If you read my original post over in hybrid/factory rifles you will note that I advise that cases need to be protected against hitting sharp projections as they are driven out of the chamber. The rod needs to be steel or brass and properly fitted to the bore - anyone trying to drive stuck cases out with a cleaning rod will be causing a lot of problems for the person who finally has to remove the case. I can't say I know how rounds detonate during this process never having had one go off, but logic would say that the primer was not protected from hitting something during the process. I also agree that there is no surefire way to kill primers and powder after pushing the bullet back into the case in really stuck cases - Kroil and other solvents will eventually degrade the primer./powder, but I don't believe anything is 100%. People who are talking about dropping a short piece of brass down the barrel to remove stuck rounds are only dealing with little problems.

Scott
 
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