Reamer chatter.........

E

eww1350

Guest
Just put a lot of time into this Lilja 20 cliber barrel threading and fitting to a Kimber 84 action...using a brand name (solid pilot) reamer .204 Ruger...and it has a major chatter problem...I have never had chatter like this...I use a Bald Eagle floating reamer holder and the chatter started right as the shoulder started to cut...I stoped and put the reamer on dead center to stop the chatter, that didn't work so I set the lathe at 200 rpm and tried a .025 feed but the chatter remained...I have about .250" body reamed into the barrel...stoped there...this has me puzzled...thinking the is a bad reamer...I saw this once before at another gunsmiths' shop..the only resolution was a piloted reamer...I don't want to loose this customers barrel...what a mess..

Any ideas...???

Eddie in Texas
 
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wow, that does suck!! What could that be, other than the reamer??? I will follow with interest. Sorry Ed! Lee
 
Wow! That's bad. Wrap the reamer in a couple of layers of wax paper and try it. You may need to bore that chatter out, as bad as it is and try it. The wax paper works. You will have to re-wrap it several times along the way. After the reamer is most of the way in the chamber it will probably get better too, but you gotta get that stopped.--Mike
 
I would go in with a boring bar with that angle lead...... slowly bore out chatter.....then cut all surfaces same amount....
OMHO
bill larson
 
I am not trying to Hi-Jack this thread but could someone elaborate on exactly how you use the wax paper. I am trying to understand the process as in my mind the flutes would be covered so I am totally at a loss.

J.Louis
 
Louis.J said:
I am not trying to Hi-Jack this thread but could someone elaborate on exactly how you use the wax paper. I am trying to understand the process as in my mind the flutes would be covered so I am totally at a loss.

J.Louis
Click to expand...

The flutes will cut through the paper and the paper deadens the vibration by "filling" the chamber. That's my take...all I know is it works.
 
I was wondering if I put the reamer on a center in the tailstock and turned the headstock by hand if it might cleanup the chatter.??
I do agree that I will have to use a boring bar and remove the chatter if the hand feed doesn't work...but in the case where I saw someone experience chatter...the wax paper didn't help...in fact Dave Kiff stated that he thinks solid pilot reamers are more prone to chatter and he recommends using a piloted reamer to cleanup the problem I have...well anyway needless to say this reamer is going back to the retailer for exchange...even though I cannot get a piloted reamer to replace it (in a short time) so I am going to try a replacement reamer for the retailer...and keep trying...
I do appreciate all the input...the only thing I haven't heard was the heavy grease in the flutes...that didn't work for the other guy who had this problem...

Thanks

Eddie in Texas
 
skeetlee said:
Anyone know why this is happening to begin with. Stopping it is one thing, but knowing why is huge. Lee
Click to expand...

No, I don't Lee, but it usually occurs with steep shoulders, like Ackleys. A reamer is fairly long and skinny to support a fairly "flat" cut like that. I suspect that with the steep angle and the fact that only one flute can come into contact with the material at EXACTLY the same time are the reasons. Remember, everything has tolerances and nothing is "perfect". That doesn't mean that the reamer is bad. A good fitting bushing on a reamer usually dampens this out until the reamer is in deep enough to be supported by the chamber.
 
eww1350 said:
I was wondering if I put the reamer on a center in the tailstock and turned the headstock by hand if it might cleanup the chatter.??
I do agree that I will have to use a boring bar and remove the chatter if the hand feed doesn't work...but in the case where I saw someone experience chatter...the wax paper didn't help...in fact Dave Kiff stated that he thinks solid pilot reamers are more prone to chatter and he recommends using a piloted reamer to cleanup the problem I have...well anyway needless to say this reamer is going back to the retailer for exchange...even though I cannot get a piloted reamer to replace it (in a short time) so I am going to try a replacement reamer for the retailer...and keep trying...
I do appreciate all the input...the only thing I haven't heard was the heavy grease in the flutes...that didn't work for the other guy who had this problem...

Thanks

Eddie in Texas
Click to expand...
Turning by hand is not likely to help. Been there, done that. Wax paper is a good bet. What do you have to lose?
 
Eddie,

Had the exact same problem with a solid pilot reamer from a good brand named reamer maker in 204R...I used baking paper and wrapped it around about 3 times and soaked it in cutting oil...replaced the paper a couple of times and finally got a good finish with no chatter.

Steve
 
Wonder who thought of the paper fix. I wouldn’t have ever thought of that, not in a million years! Cleaver!!
 
eww1350 said:
Just put a lot of time into this Lilja 20 cliber barrel threading and fitting to a Kimber 84 action...using a brand name (solid pilot) reamer .204 Ruger...and it has a major chatter problem...I have never had chatter like this...I use a Bald Eagle floating reamer holder and the chatter started right as the shoulder started to cut...I stoped and put the reamer on dead center to stop the chatter, that didn't work so I set the lathe at 200 rpm and tried a .025 feed but the chatter remained...I have about .250" body reamed into the barrel...stoped there...this has me puzzled...thinking the is a bad reamer...I saw this once before at another gunsmiths' shop..the only resolution was a piloted reamer...I don't want to loose this customers barrel...what a mess..

Any ideas...???

Eddie in Texas
Click to expand...

If you are using one of the newer ChiCom imports my first guess would be the headstock design. If you can visualize a cardboard box with bearings mounted in each end, that is essentially what you have. A thin wall of substandard cast (I won't even say cast iron??) with no intermediate bearing or internal webbing. This reamer may also have too much primary clearance complicating the machines weakness.

Have you ever had chamber reamer chatter on this lathe before?
 
JerrySharretts' post comes closer to my thinking,,,,,,, lack of rigidity. If the clearance angles are correct and there isn't a flute or two longer than the others, then either the work isn't properly supported or the tool isn't properly supported. Super sharp tools, like a new reamer, will chatter. I won't normally take a stone to a chambering reamer, but, chucking reamers are quit often "dulled" slightly to prevent chatter (ya' gotta' know where and how to use that stone!). My first thought would be to clean out the chatter with a boring bar and use that bar to "pre-bore" the chamber so more of the reamer body is buried in the chamber. This will give some support to the reamer. If I had the headstock & tailstock alined I'd choose a floating holder, just because it has more "mass", in this situation. If the lathe design, itself, is the cause, you'll just have to slow down to where it can handle the work without chattering. A removable piloted reamer, where the pilot fits the bore better, will help. Did you check bore diameter and pilot diameter on your reamer? When feeding a tool by hand (instead of 'power feeds') I've had more luck slowing down the RPM because it's much easier to increase the feed rate. Increasing RPM just makes it harder to "keep up".
 
Jerry S...I have chambered many barrels in this lathe (my first .204 Ruger though) and have never had a hint of chatter...I only use piloted reamers...the customer supplied this .204 Reamer (Manson purchased from Brownells) and it is brand new...just really am supprised at the results...I am returning the reamer for exchange...hope the next one will work...
 
I've had some experience with reamer chatter, and while the wax paper method has always worked, like Lee, I want to avoid the problem in the first place, rather than have to rely on the wax paper fix. I've got Ackley Imp-style reamers for 223, 22-250, 243, 250, 6.5x55, & 280, plus a 6 Dasher - out of that selection, the 223 & 243 AIs are the only ones that have chattered. Looking at the backsides of the flutes with magnification, I've found some burrs & removed same with a fine ceramic stone. Not sure why burrs on the backside of a flute would contribute to chatter, but stoning them and running a copper penny down the cutting edge of a brand new reamer has helped stop or reduce the incidence of chatter. The worst burrs I've found were right at the corner of the body/shoulder junction of the reamer.

As Jerry knows, both my lathes are chicom 'squarehead' models, and while they both weigh over a ton, I'd like to see more mass around the spindle.
 
Using waxed paper on a reamer is an old toolmakers trick. We also use brass shim stock to change the cutting dimension on a straight reamer. Some lubes will also change the dimensions, thicker for a larger hole.
 
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