pre 64

D

Doug Casner

New member
Dad brought his old pre 64 220 swift over and wanted me to play with it. He shot the first barrel out on coyotes,foxes,crows, and just shooting. Had about a foot of throat erosion and a bulge in the tip of the barrel. Found a pre 64 220 barrel and had it screwed on. That old rifle was like driving an old Cadillac. Great trigger and the action was almost as smooth as my Panda. Shot two .6 groups with 40 gr. ballistic tips and Varget and a .7 group with imr 4350 and 52 gr. Hornadys. Winchester sure took a giant step back in 1965. Wasn't cost effective to build the riflemans rifle anymore. A dam shame. Had one of their new mod. 70s for a while shot about like a saucer at 100 yds. I know Im the first guy to gripe about Win. quitting the old mod. 70 , right, so Ill shut up.
 
In fall of 1964 my dad won a new Model 70 in an airshow raffle in Lewiston, ID, where "Mister 270" Jack O'Connor lived (and where I was born and raised). When he arrived at storied Lolo Sporting Goods to pick it up, they handed my dad a pretty new Model 70 - in 270 Winchester.

Dad wrinkled his nose and said:

"Thanks, but would you have one in 30-06?"

"Well, yes we do, but it's last year's model, a '63 Featherweight."

"Fine, I'll take that one, thank you very much."

That rifle was thus the first center fire firearm I ever shot. Though it was a Featherweight, at age 10 I struggled to hold it level. Of course there was no such notion of ear protection, and that 22-inch barrel barked! Having no recoil pad it was truly painful for a kid to shoot, and even later as an adult, especially from the bench when working up loads.

Sadly, it developed a crack in the skinny wrist area of the stock, a very dark piece of walnut. A gunsmith at Lolo glued a dowel in it, but the bloom was off the rose in a way.
 
Years ago there was a fellow that I used to see at the range every once in a while, that I didn't know, who came over to my bench and asked me to shoot a group with a really fine pre '64. It had a sporter barrel, so I only shot a three shot group, the bedding was factory, it had a Bushnell 2 1/2 to 8 and the trigger had been nicely worked over. Not being a reloader, he bought red and white box Federal at one of the discount stores. I was shooting off of a home made rest with a loose bag set in a 90 degree V shaped top that is the best for sporter stocks that I have tried, the rear bag was a soft bottomed bunny ear Protekeor Model, nothing special. Since he had asked me to shoot it, I did my very best, and the wind gods mus have been favorable because the group was an honest, accurately measured half inch. Another time he asked me to do the same thing with a similar rifle, one had been a .270, the other '06 and both groups were the same, measured with calipers. To say the least, I was very impressed with those old rifles.
 
220 swift

We always had Outdoor Life magazines laying around the house when I was a kid so anything Jack Oconner said was the gosepel. Dads first two centerfire rifles were a 270 and 220 swift. He quotes Jack a lot like The 220 swift, the easiest cartridge ever invented to hit at unkown range with and a gutshot elk with a 270 is a gutshot elk with a 375. I called Winchester and asked for the action torque specs on a pre 64. He said they don't keep specs on antique rifles OK thanks. It shot good enough I didn't mess with the action screws.
 
The only rifle ever bit me was a pre 64 Winchester. Nobody told me about that bloody great guide lug on the side of the bolt & it pinched the thumb web of my left hand when I was cycling it open to check it was safe.

I think maybe that the don't-want-to-own-one issue with recent rifles is a function of the manufacturers building to what they think the market will pay. It's only recently that rifle prices have gone way above those listed in my old 60s Gun Digests. For that matter, my early seventies pusher M70 in .270 held somewhat under an inch all day with my loads of Winchester 785 & Hornady 140 grain spitzer boat tails.
 
Old Model 70 220 Swifts

Over the past 45 years I have owned several Pre-64 M70 220 Swifts in Standard Rifle, Target and Varmint styles (as well as a bunch of others from 22 Hornet to 458 Win Mag). For a time I'd buy Swifts that showed no throat erosion and took them to the range with my standard load of 40 grains of WW 760 and Sierra 53 grain Match bullets. If they didn't group less than 1.5 MOA I sold them. Some were 0.75 MOA or better rifles with the factory bedding untouched. The 1.5 MOA rifles usually could better 1 MOA with some bedding changes and trial and error adjustments like Jack O'Connor's business card shim under the barrel at the forend.

The old rumor about Swifts quickly eroding their throats was false as long as long, rapid-fire strings were avoided and you didn't try for maximum velocity every time. And even those with moderate (or worse) erosion could still shoot well. Jim Carmichael wrote about one of his that still shot minute of groundhog after 5000 rounds.

I'm biased but I think the 220 Swift in the old M70 was the finest factory varmint rig ever produced in the USA. Yes, it's loud and other cartridge/rifle combinations might be inherently more accurate on average, but for classic good looks and consistent performance the old M70 Swift is right at the top.

As for other M70 calibers, they were accurate too with many of those rifles capable of groups hovering around 1.5 MOA--plenty good enough for most hunting situations.

M70 critics always harp on it's gas handling shortcomings. Of course the Mauser design is better. In 45 years I've never needed to worry and I've known several guys who has gas come back through the action with no ill effects to their body. That little hole on the right side of the front ring plus the vents in the bolt body do their job pretty well.
 
I used a friends' M70 Swift w/ a 10x Weaver K10 Scope to shoot off-hand matches and shoot groundhogs with (1959-1963) and I thought it was a great rifle, very accurate, handled nice and it was a beautiful rifle. He also had a M70 243 which was accurate but didn't shine like the swift.
 
Boyd,

Boyd Allen said:
Years ago there was a fellow that I used to see at the range every once in a while, that I didn't know, who came over to my bench and asked me to shoot a group with a really fine pre '64. It had a sporter barrel, so I only shot a three shot group, the bedding was factory, it had a Bushnell 2 1/2 to 8 and the trigger had been nicely worked over. Not being a reloader, he bought red and white box Federal at one of the discount stores. I was shooting off of a home made rest with a loose bag set in a 90 degree V shaped top that is the best for sporter stocks that I have tried, the rear bag was a soft bottomed bunny ear Protekeor Model, nothing special. Since he had asked me to shoot it, I did my very best, and the wind gods mus have been favorable because the group was an honest, accurately measured half inch. Another time he asked me to do the same thing with a similar rifle, one had been a .270, the other '06 and both groups were the same, measured with calipers. To say the least, I was very impressed with those old rifles.
Click to expand...

speaking of "old rifles" that's all I will have. Certainly there are some fine factory rifles being made today but you get what you pay for and their prices aren't something I want to "invest" in. Savage, many accurate ones out there but I just can't get by the looks and feel.

Consequently, I've acquired a pre 64 M70 featherweight, a couple of Remington 722's, a Sako Vixen in 6mm PPC and a very nice 1973 vintage M70 22-250 varmint rifle. All shoot very well and the 722 have to be the current bargain of the century, if you look around and dicker a bit. --Greg
 
Doug

Doug Casner said:
We always had Outdoor Life magazines laying around the house when I was a kid so anything Jack Oconner said was the gosepel. Dads first two centerfire rifles were a 270 and 220 swift. He quotes Jack a lot like The 220 swift, the easiest cartridge ever invented to hit at unkown range with and a gutshot elk with a 270 is a gutshot elk with a 375. I called Winchester and asked for the action torque specs on a pre 64. He said they don't keep specs on antique rifles OK thanks. It shot good enough I didn't mess with the action screws.
Click to expand...

in a factory stock with factory bedding, I would say around 20 inch pounds or so.
 
Last edited:
torque

I googled the torque specs. on the action screws and some guy said 40 in. lbs. front, 40 back, 10 middle, 10 forearm. He said that worked on his 3006 pre 64. I gave it back to dad. Didn't mess with the action screws shot pretty good anyway. Dad never torqued an action screw in his life. Tights tight twisted off too tight was it ever got. Doug
 
No Rule Of Thumb

For Pre-64 M70s bedded as they came from the factory there is no rule of thumb on action screw torque. It is strictly trial and error. Most of mine liked the front action screw tight and I had to experiment with the other two and the forearm screw. You will see some references to leaving the middle action screw loose but that is not always true. You can usually tell if the area around and behind the middle screw is firmly bedded by looking at the inletting of the wood in that area. Many of the earlier M70s (before 1955) were bedded properly at the factory in this area.
 
I've had several pre64s. All shot minute of animal. Not nearly as accurate as a 700 Remington, but they had controlled feed to keep the squirrels and deer from attacking you. They are like my Mausers, They make good looking customs.
 
Hey Butch

Butch Lambert said:
I've had several pre64s. All shot minute of animal. Not nearly as accurate as a 700 Remington, but they had controlled feed to keep the squirrels and deer from attacking you. They are like my Mausers, They make good looking customs.
Click to expand...

You hit your head on the bedpost? ?
 
Pre-64

I have a like new ( I believe unfired )...pre-64 feather weight 30-06 take off barrel if anyone needs it....
PM me
bill larson
 
Well

Butch Lambert said:
glip,
A few times, but telling it like it is.
Click to expand...

I guess we can all respectfully disagree. Last good rifle Remington made was the 721/722 series. Now those had good barrels...for a Remington!

The only exquisite rifle Rem ever produced was the Model 37. Now that was a masterpiece of design and manufacture for the time.
 
glp said:
I guess we can all respectfully disagree. Last good rifle Remington made was the 721/722 series. Now those had good barrels...for a Remington!

The only exquisite rifle Rem ever produced was the Model 37. Now that was a masterpiece of design and manufacture for the time.
Click to expand...

Greg,
I like to rib you a little. As you know I had 5 mod 37s now after last week I'm down to 3. I like the pre64 Mod 70s as a custom and as hunting rifles, just not the most accurate of rifles.
 
Butch

Butch Lambert said:
Greg,
I like to rib you a little. As you know I had 5 mod 37s now after last week I'm down to 3. I like the pre64 Mod 70s as a custom and as hunting rifles, just not the most accurate of rifles.
Click to expand...

I'm up to four 37s. Shooting one today in IR 50/50 unlimited just for the fun of it. Lyman STS 30x that I just acquired and a Butch Hongisto modified miracle trigger that is truly outstanding at about 4 oz. keep the faith. Greg
 
721

My dad said he bought a 721 .270 when I was a kid because the 721 was 85 dollars and the model 70 was over a 100. That 25 bucks don't sound like much today but back then with 2 little kids at home and pumping gas for a living it was a bunch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top