OnTarget Target Data System

[Brian_K]

After what seems like several pounds of turkey, numerous mince pies and not a few glasses of Bailey’s Irish Cream, I got bored and took a look at this programme: http://ontargetshooting.com/tds/

Interesting, just wondered if anyone else has tried it?

Brian

 

[sgeorge]

Works very well for it's intended applications. There is a gentleman who peeks in on this forum that may be the subject matter expert. He has used the data points from ARA targets to generate screen shots of his outstanding indoor national championship match. Maybe he will consent to duplicating those here since the forum where they were posted is still down.

 

[Brian_K]

I had a few problems getting it up and running but Jeffery Block the developer sorted it out for me, thought it may be worth sharing:

• Use "Scan Target" when scanning for automatic operation. It is designed to locate the bulls and holes but scans slower because of the DPI setting.
• Go to Tools/Options, in the TDS options tab, set the DPI to 300, set the Brightness to 110, no check by Show Scan Sources, check by both One Touch Scanning and Target Edge Detection.
• Make sure the target aligned correctly in the scanner with no gap on the top or side of the scan.

Apparently it won’t score a target unless there is one shot in each box, but this will be sorted in future updates.

Brian

 

[sgeorge]

For some of us, scoring a target is not a feature that is missed since the stored targets are based on 8.5" X 11" paper. I believe target #35 and #36 are close to the WRABF air rifle bull dimensions and can be used to look at groups to determine best pellets or compare before/after changes.

 

[Brian_K]

I believe target #35 and #36 are close to the WRABF air rifle bull dimensions and can be used to look at groups to determine best pellets or compare before/after changes.

Exactly what I wanted it for Stephen, I need to try it in anger yet, but I can see it being a useful tool.

Brian

 

[sgeorge]

When you print your targets, use good paper, it helps.

 

[HuskerP7M8]

I hesitate to say I'm "the subject matter expert", but I have used OnTarget and all its versions since its inception. Any questions/support of a technical nature for getting the software up and running should be addressed to Jeff Block.

Anyway, I'm the individual who posted on the Rimfire Accuracy forum and showed a series of screenshots of the targets I shot at the recent ARA Indoor Nationals along with the TDS images of the shot compilations with some very useful statistics.
The forum apparently crashed, along with quite a few others, shortly after I posted and I've had more inquiries that I can count asking me to post on several other forums.

I've been reluctant to do that because I don't relish the idea of trying to follow several threads on different forums with the same theme. I've decided I will post the screenshots here and maybe elsewhere, but I may not have the time for any discussion. I made the decision to post because it seems a lot of individuals are curious about how a compilation or pattern of shots appears on a target with some very important stats included, and some may also have some interest in the very successful way ARA/PSL uses the software to automatically score targets with great accuracy.

Landy


Chart:

Target #1:

Target #2:

Target #3:

Target #4:

Target #5:

Target #6:

 

[Brian_K]

Thanks Landy,

I did comment on RA after seeing your post, but it went down shortly afterwards.

I’ve used OnTarget for some time, but only to calculate centrefire groups, I hadn't realised the TDS system was available, so many thanks for bringing it to the attention of the board members.

Brian

 

[sgeorge]

Landy,

Thanks, again.

6 targets, 150 shots, highly tuned rimfire, 50 yards, all indoors. Looking at those data points, I am fascinated at the randomness of the POIs. That one shot must have been a shocker. Maybe fascinated is not the right word, frustrated might be better. A very close approximation to an air rifle target. Maybe our pellets are not as bad as we think.

 

[garrettkq]

Other Electronic scoring systems

I know you have asked about the On Target system, but may i suggest http://www.orionscoringsystem.com for a scannable scoring system. It uses the official USARB 25 and 50yd targets, and works like a charm. It will be used at the Nationals this coming May as the official targeting system. Worth a look.

 

[michaelthomas]

I tried out the OnTarget TDS yesterday after shooting some practice cards.

I manually scanned in my cards, and used the SetReference feature to scale properly. I selected target 36 5 x 5 WRABF 25m.

When I click on Show Target Data......the group info looks correct, but the scores do not agree with mine. The WRABF actual score is correct, but the X's are about 12 low. My 10 ring is .080". What size are the WRABF 25m ten rings? Maybe bigger?

The PSL X count is correct.....and it shows a 2450......which I guess is comparable to a 249.

I'm new here.....by the way......so thanks for any help in advance.

Mike

 

[sgeorge]

Garrett,

How about a look at the Orion targets and your impressions of paper, speed, accuracy, etc. Eric has been pretty quiet about things due to your beta testing.

Mike,

WRABF air rifle ten ring is 2mm OD. On the target I posted, the X count is a bit low.

 

[michaelthomas]

Ya......just a bit.....ha ha.

OK.....so it's not something I am doing wrong, then. Surprise, there.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[garrettkq]

More info on Orion system

For all,
The targets are posted here: http://www.phoenixairgun.net/Phoenix_Benchrest/Targets.html. Duplicates of world targets. All dimensions are precisely the same. For more info click the interpretation link on the site above.
The paper used is Kruger. Very high end. It makes crisp wad cutter holes from round nose pellets. Price about equal with the local print shop card stock.
The scanning takes minutes, it immediately can get posted on line. It uses a specially calibrated scanner.
We worked closely with Orion to ensure all WRABF rules were integrated into the system. It works with both 25 and 50 yd targets. Accuracy: Orion exceeds the accuracy standards set by the International Shooting Sports Federation, and routinely scores single shot air gun within .08mm. Olympic accuracy.
The results are provided with all exact x-y coordinates, decimal and graphic on a printout. Results can be broken down by class, team, gender, age.
It flags any multi shot per bull, or any missed shots with a user required validation.

My only warning: once you go with this system, you will never go back to the dark side of hand scoring. So beware.

 

[Sighters]

For all,
The targets are posted here: http://www.phoenixairgun.net/Phoenix_Benchrest/Targets.html. Duplicates of world targets. All dimensions are precisely the same. For more info click the interpretation link on the site above.
The paper used is Kruger. Very high end. It makes crisp wad cutter holes from round nose pellets. Price about equal with the local print shop card stock.
The scanning takes minutes, it immediately can get posted on line. It uses a specially calibrated scanner.
We worked closely with Orion to ensure all WRABF rules were integrated into the system. It works with both 25 and 50 yd targets. Accuracy: Orion exceeds the accuracy standards set by the International Shooting Sports Federation, and routinely scores single shot air gun within .08mm. Olympic accuracy.
The results are provided with all exact x-y coordinates, decimal and graphic on a printout. Results can be broken down by class, team, gender, age.
It flags any multi shot per bull, or any missed shots with a user required validation.

My only warning: once you go with this system, you will never go back to the dark side of hand scoring. So beware.

Great to know we are moving away from subjective scoring. What sort of costs are involved? Scanner, printer and program?


Gert

 

[Bill Collaros]

Wrabf

Gert we are doing the live trial with South African System at Australian Rba Titles in February with 80 shooters on behalf of the Wrabf , if succesful will also be at Wrabf World Champs 2015

 

[Brian_K]

I think it’ probably worth pointing out that the OnTarget TDS software is not intended as a true scoring system, but more as a data gathering and practice system for the individual shooter.

The Orion System (from what I can see) and the WRABF system (I would assume) are dedicated scoring programmes.

For a one off fee of $75 for TDS it’s a very useful tool that doesn’t pretend to be anything more than it is.

Addition: After looking at the specs for the Orion System, I note:

How accurate is Orion?
• 50m Rifle: .40mm radial error

Is that correct, or has it been improved? To be honest 0.40mm (0.016”) is a country mile in benchrest (I appreciate 0.08mm was stated in an earlier post, but is this the norm or the best of a number of measurements?)

Brian

 

[sgeorge]

The numbers we have been quoted for Orion systems have been impressive. Certainly on par with what the ARA/PSL systems are demonstrating. The folks in Arizona can speak to accuracy and speed as they have been closely monitoring this with Orion.

Agree with the TDS assessment, a great tool for the intended application. Those X counts are a bit tough to handle.

 

[Brian_K]

Those X counts are a bit tough to handle.

Not sure why that would be. I printed out some 0.220” circles from a vinyl printer, placed them around the target then scanned it (after setting the hole size to 0.224”):

Working on the basis anything under 0.080” is an X (target 8) and anything between 0.081” and under 0.152” is a TEN (target 1), visually everything looks OK.

Unfortunately the TDS programme won’t (as yet) score the 20 target cards I’ve been working with so I’m not able to test the scoring.

Brian

 

[sgeorge]

Try target 36, 25 bulls, a close approximation of the WRABF 25 meter target.

Based on an .080 or less measurement, the target had 16X but shows a 248-2X. Not an issue for me, if I started to take it seriously, I might end up choking.