on the fence

G

gambler

Guest
i'm realy interested about this airgun benchrest:cool:

back about 2004 kingsnake told me airgun was going places, said they were
really accurate and fun to shoot, well i've been away from benchrest for awhile and looks like he was right..
i'm thinking they should be more accurate because the shooter has more
control of the projectile and the charge behind it.
my mind is overflowing with questions.
are the guns more user friendly than rimfire?
cheaper or more expensive to shoot ?
as accurate at 50yrds as rimfire?
need more or less GUNSMITHING ?
i've found the airgun benchrest website, but it's not answering these questions, might be just my computer but everytime i visit that site
internet explorer needs to close:mad:
my gunfund is growing and just about ready to dive back into bench shooting..
Rimfire or airgun...on the fence:confused:
 
i'm realy interested about this airgun benchrest:cool:

back about 2004 kingsnake told me airgun was going places, said they were
really accurate and fun to shoot, well i've been away from benchrest for awhile and looks like he was right..
i'm thinking they should be more accurate because the shooter has more
control of the projectile and the charge behind it.
my mind is overflowing with questions.
are the guns more user friendly than rimfire?
cheaper or more expensive to shoot ?
as accurate at 50yrds as rimfire?
need more or less GUNSMITHING ?
i've found the airgun benchrest website, but it's not answering these questions, might be just my computer but everytime i visit that site
internet explorer needs to close:mad:
my gunfund is growing and just about ready to dive back into bench shooting..
Rimfire or airgun...on the fence:confused:

Howdy Gambler,
I'm a newcomer to the AGBR game myself, I shot in my first AGBR indoor competition in early February of this year and now I am hooked...

I've been shooting for nearly 60 years, started in the early 1950's as a boy of 9 with my father's single shot Marlin .22 and have been at it ever since. Prior to the February 7th 2009 AGBR indoor match where someone loaned me a Theoben rifle in a benchrest stock and invited me to shoot in the match, I'd never shot a high quality precision airgun target rifle before, my experience has all been rimfire and centerfire...

In the six months since that February match (I came in second out of 8 shooters and had high target score for the day) I've acquired quite an education in precision airgun shooting. I now have collected a few guns, first an Air Arms S400MPR-FT in .177 caliber which I purchased the week following the February match and the MPR-FT with a front rest adapter plate has very nicely has satisfied my needs for a competitive gun right out of the box and I was able to show up at the next month's matches with my own gun and setup ready to compete.

Then as I listened to the fellows at the matches talk about spring and the start up of the outdoor matches for the season, I decided I wanted a heavier caliber gun in a heavier, more stable BR style stock and after looking at a lot of the different guns available which I felt had the best features for building a more formal BR gun, I decided on an Air Arms S400SL-Extra in 22 caliber installed in a custom BR stock. This gun is working out quite well now that its finished and is presently in the final stages of tweaking and tuning... You can read about this gun in the thread below, "Rifle for Airgun Benchrest?"

And now that my S400SL BR gun is competing, I've started another project for a benchrest gun. Its all about the quest for ultimate accuracy and I've just acquired one of the new FX Royale 400 airguns to be my next BR gun project. Its mostly that I don't like having all my eggs in one basket and this new FX Royale seems to be incredibly accurate right out of the box and I love to tinker...


As to your questions:
"are the guns more user friendly than rimfire?"

I'd say about the same, I shoot rimfire benchrest also and find little difference.

"cheaper or more expensive to shoot ?"

As far as ammunition and air, shooting costs are definitely cheaper, pellets run about $10-$15 per tin of 500 for good quality and a tank of air to charge the gun costs me $5.00 to refill and I get about 50 gun fills out of that $5.00 worth of air. I calculate cost at about $0.03 per shot as compared to Eley black box Match ammo I shoot in rimfire at about $0.21 per shot...


"as accurate at 50yrds as rimfire?"

That's a hard one to answer as AGBR is shot at 25 yards at a similar type target but at a different scale. I do not have any good comparison to compare PCP pellet airgun accuracy to rimfire and part of this is that airgun shooting does not have the top end custom rifles that rimfire does ands also airgun pellets are lighter. 10.5gn for .177 caliber and 18gn or 21gn for .22 caliber as compared to 40gn being typical for rimfire so wind effects airgun pellets more than rimfire bullets. However based on what I have read on several airgun manufacturers web sites, I'd say that typically the airgun has the potential to be nearly as accurate as rimfire. Also, you might look for information from some of the West Coast shooters as I believe they use a 50 yard group shooting format as compared to the AGBR 25 yard, 25 shot target format and they might have better information about 50 yard accuracy.

"need more or less GUNSMITHING ?"

Again, a speculative answer, its my opinion that precision airgun shooting requires less top end gunsmithing to have a competitive gun than rimfire competitors guns. I think the answer in this lays with the English and European shooters and airgun manufacturers having been into precision airgun shooting a lot longer than we here in the USA where precision airgun shooting is in its infancy as compared to rimfire. There are a number of very accurate airguns being imported that sell for reasonable prices that shoot very accurately right out of the box. Here in the US we have only a handful of top airgunsmiths capable of improving on air rifle accuracy and you wil see more people successfully competing with stock airguns at matches than you will see stock guns in rimfire BR competitions.

Hope this is a help in what you decide.

Happy Shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...
 
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First you better make sure they are holding matches within easy driving distance. If so go check it out. I have competitive custom BR rifles [ Vipers ], semi-competitive rimfire BR rifles, and a super competitive air gun. I like shooting the airgun probably more than the others but can't get any matches going :(

I would be happy shooting airgun matches twice a month. Can't do it without other shooters.
 
first i want to thank you for a long comprehensive answer, it's rare for someone to take the time to cover ALL questions posed:)
i'm looking at some really :cool: air guns on the web
the transition from POP to SPLAT won't be easy for me as i'm stuck here
in south east mo. with no convenient hands on experience available.
gun cost looks about the same, rimfire ammo sucks.....
I've gotta do more research as to where to get air and accessories.
thanks again
Earl
 
Unfortunately Ray makes a very valid point, according to the AGBR web site match schedule last time I looked at it, there are only ten states in the USA where Airgun Benchrest Matches are presently being held regularly.

However the good news is if you can find one other person interested in your area, you can hold your own matches and hopefully encourage others to participate... I think airgun benchrest's time has come, the biggest issue is getting the word out and getting people started. I think there is plenty of interest, I'm located about a one hour drive from the Holbrook Club where the AGBR matches are held twice monthly and I always show up with an extra gun as there is always someone who comes to see what it is all about. We have anywhere from three to nine shooters, typically six or seven for most matches although we've had as few as three depending on weather and other conflicting situations. As to a range, what is happening at Holbrook, AGBR matches are held on the rifle range following the rimfire RBA match after a lunch break. Just about any range will do, all you need is a couple of benches or a good solid picnic table in the back yard I've heard that some use with only a couple shooters getting started. An advantage about airguns, a 25 yard range is easy to set up.

There has also been talk of conducting postal AGBR matches however that does not seem to have materialized at this point... I think postal matches would be a big boost to help getting AGBR beyond its struggling infancy...

Last time I checked, the airgunbenchrest.com site was working, after posting this message, I'll go check it out...

Edited to add: As of 7:40PM on July 12th, the AGBR (airgunbenchrest.com) site is working however seems not to have any updated information added for a while.

Happy shooting Y'all,
Mitch & Shadow...
 
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gun life expectancy

I'm thinking about how long an air gun will last....a rimfire should outlast it's owner, just a wag, might need re-barreling after 15000 or more shots .
air guns give the appearance of being more delicate, more delicate parts to wear and break..as usual i want the best, with all the bells and whistles.

might just be my PC but every time i visit airgun benchrest INTERNET explorer
encounters a problem and needs to close:mad:

but it's a new puter:rolleyes:
 
I'm thinking about how long an air gun will last....a rimfire should outlast it's owner, just a wag, might need re-barreling after 15000 or more shots .
air guns give the appearance of being more delicate, more delicate parts to wear and break..as usual i want the best, with all the bells and whistles.

might just be my PC but every time i visit airgun benchrest INTERNET explorer
encounters a problem and needs to close:mad:

but it's a new puter:rolleyes:


Let's start with the last one first... I doubt its either your computer or the website but if there is a problem, its with Internet Explorer. IE has been fraught with funny glitches from day one and thanks to that, it left the door open for Nescape to become one of the most popular browsers for many years. These days many folks use Mozilla "Firefox" rather than IE as its a more stable and powerful browser and you can have Firefox installed on your system and switch between the two browsers while you are deciding that FireFox is more to your liking. Go to this site for more information:
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/

As to how long a quality pellet rifle will last, I do not have enough experience to have a personal opinion but from what I have read, a quality pellet rifle will probably outlast most rimfire guns. The logic in this is that pellet rifles do not operate by an internal explosion each time you pull the trigger but depend on the rapid expansion of a cool gas (air or Co2) and pellets typically travel at a slower velocity down the barrel than a rimfire bullet. Most pellet guns operate in the 600 fps to 900 fps velocity range and pellets are typically made of soft lead and lubricated. Yes, there are seals to replace with age, typically ten to fifteen years is about normal so I've read, and most are common O-rings readily available most anywhere, often your local hardware store.

Now, what I do know is my brother has an FWB 150 Match pellet rifle made in the late 1960's and its a great shooter. I also know a fellow that has a Crosman Model 160 made between 1957 and the mid 1960's, its still shooting as it always has and new seal kits are available for it from Archer Airgun Supply... I've heard of others with even older pellet guns however those two I know of first hand. I've also heard of old Anschutz pellet rifles that are still shooting as well as older Walther Match guns being very popular.

However, for me with an engineering background point of view, for my first gun I chose to go with the English Air Arms S400MPR-FT gun as they are very well designed and made of very high quality materials and construction and they have an excellent match trigger that is hard to beat. I have not regretted that choice for any reason and that gun has lead me to purchase two more Air Arms S400 guns of the FAC side lever variety, one in .177 caliber and one .22 caliber and I'm just as pleased with them.

However there are many very good precision airguns available today, its a very difficult choice to make when you are starting from ground zero with little experience to draw on...

Happy Shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...
 
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Air guns

Earl,
How far do you live from Berryville, Ark. There is a guy buy the name of Don Matzeder that lives there and is big into airguns. He held a match or two last year but family trouble caused him to cancel out this year.
Anyway he is on the rimfire forum quite a lot. You might get him to give you some pointers and start you in the right direction.
I live in South just north of Texarkana but our range is over in Texas. I'm trying to have air gun matches once a month on the 4th Saturday of each month at 6:00 pm. don't have many shooters but I'm still hanging in there.
Hope this helps.
Larry Burchfield
870-898-2983
903-701-5712
 
Earl,
How far do you live from Berry ville, Ark.]

I'm 100 miles south of st.Louis and three hundred from berryville Ark.
I've found a website for st.Louis air gun club, but it's not been updated for five years.
i think there maybe some shooters in the cape gerardeau area, i'll keep looking
 
How far are you from Princeton, KY? The Caldwell County Sportsman Club located in or near Princeton runs rimfire benchrest matches and that might be a good place to find information.

If you go to the Killough Shooting Sports web site, Dan Killouugh has a page with maps with the various rimfire BR range locations and often, airgun shooters are rimfire shooters as well...

Happy Shooting,
Mitch & Shadow...
 
i shot a cheap beeman sportsman, break barrel...to my suprise it was louder than a 22lr subsonic and kicked like a 410 guage shotgun:eek:
 
Thats cause a spring is pushing the air that pushes the pellet.

The precharged pnuematics (sp?) and pump type Airguns have virtually no recoil, and with a muzzle device can be very quiet.

Those springers are hard to shoot and I give a tip o' the hat to those who shoot well with them.
 
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