New to sport...HELP

K

kevkal

Guest
Extremely new to sport....looks like i found the right place here.

knowing what you guys know NOW.... if you had to go back to the beginning, what would be an ideal set-up for a beginner?

I don't hunt and i'm not looking to enter major competition. Just recreational, relaxed shooting.

I don't want to go cheap or super expensive. I'm a middle of the road kinda guy.

I was originally looking at a Ruger American/Savage Axis, but came across some videos that recommended NOT to use those rifles for bench. Possibly instead a Remington 700 or Savage 10.

Ideal caliber for beginner??

The range by me has 100, 200 and 300 yard options.

any little help or push in the right direction is greatly appreciated!
 
I'd get a used Remington 700 varmint-type rifle in .223 and put a scope of approximately 16x on it. That should be accurate enough for you to enjoy "recreational, relaxed shooting"; if you get the itch to shoot matches and you decide that gun is unsatisfactory for that purpose you can sell it and probably recoup most of you investment.
 
Start by letting us know where you are from and maybe somebody is in the area could help you along. Beats making a bunch of expensive mistakes as you go.
 
I'd put in a vote for savage in 6br - if you handload you will be able to find an accurate load that should make range time more fun. If you don't handload you can buy factory ammo (little pricey, but then you can reload the brass). Get some wind flags and put lots of rounds down range.
A nice scope as mentioned above will get you started.
You may also want to check www.accurateshooter.com or www.savageshooters.com if you go the savage route.

If you are talking about beginning Benchrest (i.e. 6 or 30PPC and 30BR and others) there are a lot of great threads on that subject if you do a search for things like "newbie with questions" "equipment for benchrest" "how to get started".

Advice usually gets summed up in the form of "go to a match and see the equipment used. Most benchrest shooters are very willing to talk your ear off and get you hooked. Get a good used gun, some flags, and SHOOT A LOT."
If you have no intention of shooting a full race benchrest gun (ppc or BR), even for fun, and they are fun, you might want to check out the factory/hybrid forum on this site.

Good luck.
Mike
 
thanks a lot guys. i'm just outside of chicago, not a lot of choices for outdoor range shooting. From what i could find, a club in Aurora (60 miles from me) and one in Bourbonnais (40 miles).

I'm gonna start slow and just immerse myself in the range while keeping my ears and eyes open.....and asking questions.
 
The trouble with shooting accurate rifles for fun and relaxation is that it becomes an obsession! Plenty of good advise here, but if you've got the bug already I'd suggest to step it up a notch and start with a decent front rest (solid, windage adjustable and supports the 3" wide forearm) and pretty much any benchrest rifle (though a 10.5# class gun is cheapest path to most matches). The rifle can be made on a brand name action (like a sleeved Remington), but there are also good buys out there on older or lesser-known used customs like a Hall or DGA as well. While the factory guns may be just as accurate, these guns will teach you how fun (and occasionally frustrating :p ) the quest for uncompromising accuracy can be.

Rod
 
Here are three ideas:

1. A used benchrest rifle in 6 BR chambered with a no-turn neck.

2. A Light Varmint / Sporter rifles in 6 PPC or similar chambered such that neck turning is required.

3. A factory varmint/target rifle.

The issue with #1 is the lack of availability. You don't see them nearly as often as LV/Sporter 6 PPCs. Look in the classifieds here and over at http://forum.accurateshooter.com/ .

The issue with option 2, is the neck turning. The way to mitigate that is to get one that includes brass and/or to get one of the brass services to do the turning for you. Ron Hoehn, P1ZombieKiller over at the website above, DJ's Brass, will all turn necks for you.

The issue with option 3 is that you are more likely, IMHO, to get a rifle that you won't be satisified with and end up dropping a lot of money into it that you'll never get back. The way around that is to find a rifle that someone has already dropped the money into and bargain well. Another avenue is to find, and pay the high price for, a Sako L461. Great rifle. You will pay a price for it, but you'll be able to get your money out of it as well.

There is a ton that I'm skipping here. Don't want to write an epistle.
 
The trouble with shooting accurate rifles for fun and relaxation is that it becomes an obsession! Plenty of good advise here, but if you've got the bug already I'd suggest to step it up a notch and start with a decent front rest (solid, windage adjustable and supports the 3" wide forearm) and pretty much any benchrest rifle (though a 10.5# class gun is cheapest path to most matches). The rifle can be made on a brand name action (like a sleeved Remington), but there are also good buys out there on older or lesser-known used customs like a Hall or DGA as well. While the factory guns may be just as accurate, these guns will teach you how fun (and occasionally frustrating :p ) the quest for uncompromising accuracy can be.

Rod

+1 listen to Rod, a true Benchrest rifle even one built on a sleeved Remington is a good option, but one built on a custom action always has a better resale value. The advice of a solid front rest and rear bag is priceless as without these it is a lot harder to achieve the accuracy you are looking for.

Ian
 
thanks a lot guys. i'm just outside of chicago, not a lot of choices for outdoor range shooting. From what i could find, a club in Aurora (60 miles from me) and one in Bourbonnais (40 miles).

I'm gonna start slow and just immerse myself in the range while keeping my ears and eyes open.....and asking questions.

There is a fine range with benches just over the border in Bristol, WI. as well.
 
Here are the first three rules of beginning in benchrest, when you don't already have a mentor at a local club:

1. Go to matches before spending money.

2. Go to matches before spending money.

3. Go to matches before spending money.

Here's the fourth. Stay off the internet. The amount of good information (vast) is surpassed by the amount of pure junk information ("vaster"). I would imagine that's the same if you pick a topic about something you do know a lot about -- your profession, whatever. Why would you think it is different in shooting?

Having said that:

I don't think anyone mentioned this option, but a used benchrtest rifle is usually better than a Savington, etc.

The usual caveate is the barrel may be shot out & ned to be replaced. That's always possible, but a "shot out" benchrest barrel means it is no longer competitive. That's where you usually start with a new Savington.

On the other hand, I know of innumerable (OK, internet exaggeration, let's say (1) more than 10, and (2) I don't keep track of what's for sale) rifles that went on sale because the owner got tired of the sport, had health or family issues that lead to the sale, etc.

This would include the time when one of the NBRSA Southeastern Region Hall of Fame shooters, Ed Hartman, put three rifles up for sale, one of which had less than 100 rounds down the barrel. Low-round count rifle was priced accordingly, of course. IIRC, His wife was very ill, and he wasn't doing so well health-wise, either. One of his older rifles had won a LOT of big matches, and I had to think long & hard before not buying it, even though I had three very good rifles at the time.

Etc.

So, not the latest BAT action with the latest Bartlin gain-twist barrel, that will be too expensive. But an old Panda with a new Shilen will beat 99% of the Remages's (or Savington's) out there.

Which brings us back to

Go to several matches and pick your mentor carefully!


And for goodness sake, don't get caught up in winning, or it will get expensive.
 
I might add even as a casual shooter not being able to put all your bullets into one becomes very mundane very quickly. The excitement / since of accomplishment comes by trying to put them into the same made by the first shot without enlarging it. Good equipment will provide you with the opportunity to try doing just that, then there is no need of buying up down the road and boredom will not have a chance to set in.
 
You will do MUCH worse

Here are the first three rules of beginning in benchrest, when you don't already have a mentor at a local club:

1. Go to matches before spending money.

2. Go to matches before spending money.

3. Go to matches before spending money.

Here's the fourth. Stay off the internet. The amount of good information (vast) is surpassed by the amount of pure junk information ("vaster"). I would imagine that's the same if you pick a topic about something you do know a lot about -- your profession, whatever. Why would you think it is different in shooting?

Having said that:

I don't think anyone mentioned this option, but a used benchrtest rifle is usually better than a Savington, etc.

The usual caveate is the barrel may be shot out & ned to be replaced. That's always possible, but a "shot out" benchrest barrel means it is no longer competitive. That's where you usually start with a new Savington.

On the other hand, I know of innumerable (OK, internet exaggeration, let's say (1) more than 10, and (2) I don't keep track of what's for sale) rifles that went on sale because the owner got tired of the sport, had health or family issues that lead to the sale, etc.

This would include the time when one of the NBRSA Southeastern Region Hall of Fame shooters, Ed Hartman, put three rifles up for sale, one of which had less than 100 rounds down the barrel. Low-round count rifle was priced accordingly, of course. IIRC, His wife was very ill, and he wasn't doing so well health-wise, either. One of his older rifles had won a LOT of big matches, and I had to think long & hard before not buying it, even though I had three very good rifles at the time.

Etc.

So, not the latest BAT action with the latest Bartlin gain-twist barrel, that will be too expensive. But an old Panda with a new Shilen will beat 99% of the Remages's (or Savington's) out there.

Which brings us back to

Go to several matches and pick your mentor carefully!


And for goodness sake, don't get caught up in winning, or it will get expensive.


Than listening to Charles' sage advice. DO NOT think you can go buy a factory rifle and go compete. Not going to happen.
 
Extremely new to sport....looks like i found the right place here.

I don't want to go cheap or super expensive. I'm a middle of the road kinda guy.
!

I must disagree, I think you stumbled upon the wrong place !!!!!!
If you are middle of the road you will be met with heartache and disappointment.

If you are ALL IN you will also have heartache and disappointment but will be able to cope with it much better (In theory).
 
Extremely new to sport....looks like i found the right place here.

knowing what you guys know NOW.... if you had to go back to the beginning, what would be an ideal set-up for a beginner?

I don't hunt and i'm not looking to enter major competition. Just recreational, relaxed shooting.

I don't want to go cheap or super expensive. I'm a middle of the road kinda guy.

I was originally looking at a Ruger American/Savage Axis, but came across some videos that recommended NOT to use those rifles for bench. Possibly instead a Remington 700 or Savage 10.

Ideal caliber for beginner??

The range by me has 100, 200 and 300 yard options.

any little help or push in the right direction is greatly appreciated!

Knowing what I know now? And, if I wasn't interested in looking to enter major competition?

See if Gene Beggs has one of these still available in his inventory in the 220 Beggs with a NO-TURN neck: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=220+Beggs+rifle&submit=Search

Read the Article. See what you think.

This would be the easiest way to get started: super parent cartridge, great brass, no neck turning, cheaper to shoot, a few good recommended powders, and you could be shooting small groups in no time.

If you do your part correctly, over a good set of wind flags that can be found here: http://www.brflags.com/ [along with Free Targets], you'll have lots of fun with a cool looking, accurate rifle. :cool:

Here's Gene's # 432-631-5124. :)
 
Help is Close By

Extremely new to sport....looks like i found the right place here.

knowing what you guys know NOW.... if you had to go back to the beginning, what would be an ideal set-up for a beginner?

I don't hunt and i'm not looking to enter major competition. Just recreational, relaxed shooting.

I don't want to go cheap or super expensive. I'm a middle of the road kinda guy.

I was originally looking at a Ruger American/Savage Axis, but came across some videos that recommended NOT to use those rifles for bench. Possibly instead a Remington 700 or Savage 10.

Ideal caliber for beginner??

The range by me has 100, 200 and 300 yard options.

any little help or push in the right direction is greatly appreciated!

Oak Hill Gun Club is about 2-3 hours west of you on I-80--Quad Cities
Our next and last match of this year is September 15, 2013
Come over and visit with the members/shooters and gunsmiths.
There is a wealth of knowledge available to you at no cost.
Cecil Peterson
563-343-5034
peterson1@mchsi.com
 
Don't know if this will help, but here's a story. It happens to be true, No internet exaggeration. I know it is true, because it is my story.

I'd been following benchrest since my late teens. I'd shot NRA 4-position (rimfire) as a junior, so was interested in accurate rifles. Probably wore out a copy of Warren Page's The Accurate Rifle before ever getting to a benchrest match. In fact, I didn't get to a match until I was almost 40, just starting a new business, working 90-100 hours a week and taking minimum wage as a salary. Money was tight.

I went to several matches at one club. These were club matches, not registered matches.There was a guy there who won most of the time; later I found out he was a middle-of-the-pack shooter in the Southeastern Region registered matches.

Anyway, he had a rilfe built by a man named Charlie Joins, a very good gunsmith who lived the foothills of the North Carolina mountains. It was built on a Remington 40-X, with a Hart barrel, McMillan stock, Jewell trigger. All good, nothing special. Of course, Mr. Joins had been through the action. The owner allowed the barrel had close to 1,000 rounds though it, and explained that was on the high side, it wouldn't last as a winning rifle too much longer with that barrel.

Bobby (the man's name) wanted a rifle built by James Messer, at that time, a smith with a long waiting list. He needed to sell his current rifle in order to get the Messer-built rifle. I think he felt that this new rifle would help him move up at the sanctioned matches (it didn't).

Since he was getting a new rifle, he was also willing to sell me his dies. These weren't a bargain, but did save me having to figure out how to get dies -- in those days, a mystery to me. We also negotiated for an older Pat McMillan barrel fitted to the action. That barrel had about 800 rounds on it, but was too heavy on this rifle to make the 10.5 pound weight limit.

So, the price for the rifle, dies, extra barrel, about 4 pounds of Australian 322 powder, a mixed lot of cases, and a few other bits & pieces, was $1,200. To put things in perspective, a new Panda action was around $900 at the time, and the then very popular Hall action was around $1,200.

He also showed me a little about shooting benchrest, and wasn't a bad teacher.

OK, here's the point(s).

1. Charlie Joins wasn't as popular as James Messer at that time, but was a very good smith. I'd say as good. Charlie built Dave Tooley's rifles before Dave became a gunsmith.

2. A trued Remington 40-X single shot wasn't as popular as a Hall, but the accuracy potential was as good (I know there will be howls on this one). It usually does take a good 'smith to realized it's full potential, and no, the resale value isn't as high. But that's a plus if you're buying used.

Right bolt-left port was just coming into fancy; it was believed to be faster to shoot. At one time long after the right bolt-left port craze began, & maybe still today, Mr. Tony Boyer shot the old fashioned right-right, noting that it took as long to acquire the target as to reload, and a right-right meant you didn't have to let go of the bag (or joystick). In short, there are ways to shoot that can compensate for a particular mechanical setup. The last two actions I ordered -- new -- were right-right, because I'm comfortable with that.

You don't have to have a high-dollar front rest or even a windage top. The old Hart pedestal is still just fine. I have two joystick front rests, and find myself going back to the old Hart.

3. You do need a good scope, and *good* here means one that doesn't change it's point of impact. It has nothing to do with how bright it is. I don't know of any way to guarantee that, with a scope budget from $300 to $3,000. I would get a new scope, they all go bad over time, and while a new scope is no guarantee, is is a plus.

So that's the story, with some notes.

Recently, there was a long thread on why aggs are coming down. Most replies had to do with equipment. For the fun of it, I went and looked at the Southeaster Region Hall of fame, because I know these guys -- some new, some deceased. The older ones, by in large, didn't have a range at home. The newer ones do. Firing enough rounds to know were the bullet is going in the changing wind conditions is a lot more important than brand X Y Z equipment. All the equipment has to be is reliable, giving repeatable results.

Since you live in Chicago a home range is not an option, but the moral is the same. For short range success, don't chase equipment, chase shooting skills. And the hardest skill to acquire is, eye to spine (not brain) to finger, what's the wind, here on the ground, going to do to the bullet?

Good luck to you, and don't forget to enjoy the shooting.
 
Charles,

Frank is smiling down on you today. Great post.

Kevkal, The aurora range would be a good one for you to join and practice at. It is only 100 yards, but the winds there are tricky as hell and you will find your practice time well worth the effort

David
 
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