johan teughels
Member
how do i measure the headspace when making a barrel for a glue in action if you got no example to take measures ,(head stock chambering )
new barrel gue in action
- Thread starter johan teughels
- Start date
AFAIK it really depends on the action. Stiller, Borden, Kelbly are three for instance who supply a spec'd drawing AND adhere closely enough to these specs to be useful..... You should be able to do a Kelbly for instance, literally from their website, without ever seeing or physically touching an action.
Most actions on the planet need to be measured up, hands-on, but I'll speak to these three examples (altho some on here will argue that fact on one of the brands I've listed LOL)
johan teughels
Member
It is a panda
Wayne Shaw
Active member
1.115" tenon and headspace.
As someone mentioned the full spec is on their website.
Wayne gave you the HS/Tenon length
Tenon thread is 1.0625X18 30* cone.
To Al's point, Pandas are very consistent unlike some other popular actions. (in my experience.)
I usually cut the tenon @ 1.060 at a thread pitch of 1.024
They all screw on easy peasy.
If you are doing a lot of glued in actions, I made a few fixtures, one of which holds a micrometer head and screws into the action.
Also has an attachment to check bolt nose/cone clearance.
Screw it on, run the thimble down, lock the ring and screw it out. Works great for those action you can't get a depth mic on. (more accurate as well).
Hope this helps,
Greg
Wayne Shaw
Active member
1.071" over .032" wires.
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Greg, that sounds interesting. Could or would you mind posting a pic or so of the fixture? I've made them to do the same on barrel tenons but it would be handy to have something similar for actions. Thank you!--Mike
Mike,
I snapped some pics of a couple of the tools I created that have made my life much easier.
Pretty simple to make from old barrel stubs.
The ones with the windows are HS measuring devices set up for different tenons/threads. (Probably similar to what you use)
The one you were asking about has the attachment on it in the one picture to measure the cone on the bolt (I made a 30* & 25*).
I use the 1" gauge ball to transfer the measurement to the HS gauge I use on the barrel plus whatever clearance you want.
You use it with out the attachment to measure the action HS. The way I have it set up its exactly .5" to the shoulder when the mic is at .0000,
so you have to add that 1/2" to your measurement.
The only thing I would change (and will at some point) is to drill a couple of more holes in the OD so you can use a pin or allen wrench to tighten/untighten it against the shoulder.
Sometimes its hard to break it loose with your fingers, and sometimes the allen screw is in the wrong place to use.
Anyway thats what I came up with to make my life easier and my measuring more accurate.
All these tools will repeat +/- .0001 which is about as good as I can measure.
Enjoy,
Greg
PS: If you start selling them and make a fortune, I want a discount on my next tuner!
Attachments
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Mike,
I snapped some pics of a couple of the tools I created that have made my life much easier.
Pretty simple to make from old barrel stubs.
The ones with the windows are HS measuring devices set up for different tenons/threads. (Probably similar to what you use)
The one you were asking about has the attachment on it in the one picture to measure the cone on the bolt (I made a 30* & 25*).
I use the 1" gauge ball to transfer the measurement to the HS gauge I use on the barrel plus whatever clearance you want.
You use it with out the attachment to measure the action HS. The way I have it set up its exactly .5" to the shoulder when the mic is at .0000,
so you have to add that 1/2" to your measurement.
The only thing I would change (and will at some point) is to drill a couple of more holes in the OD so you can use a pin or allen wrench to tighten/untighten it against the shoulder.
Sometimes its hard to break it loose with your fingers, and sometimes the allen screw is in the wrong place to use.
Anyway thats what I came up with to make my life easier and my measuring more accurate.
All these tools will repeat +/- .0001 which is about as good as I can measure.
Enjoy,
Greg
PS: If you start selling them and make a fortune, I want a discount on my next tuner!
Looks nice Greg. No worries...I have plenty on my plate without adding more new projects.
Mike,
Glad to oblige, and ain't that the truth!
I retired from my day job last month, thought I'd have all this extra time for all my projects.
Well I do, but I also have a lot more projects!
I guess it beats watching reruns of "My name is Earl"
Greg
Wayne,
Thats the way I learned to do it (over wires), but a few years back I finally got tired of screwing with the wires and the different little gizmo's to hold them.
Went out and invested in a pair of thread mics 0-1" & 1-2" which covers 99.9% of what I do. I figure anything over 2" and I can use the wires if need be.
For me (all thumbs) it's just a lot easier, especially with the barrel in the lathe.
They are pricey, but what isn't in the game we play.
Regards,
Greg
Wayne Shaw
Active member
Greg, I agree 100%. When I started using them, I cussed like crazy. Then Jackie made a post and said "use a dab of grease on both sides to hold the wires...". No more cussing.
And they are a "standard" recognized most everywhere. I use them on every tenon, you think you have the threads looking good, but the wires tell you if you're right or wrong.
And they are a "standard" recognized most everywhere. I use them on every tenon, you think you have the threads looking good, but the wires tell you if you're right or wrong.
johan teughels
Member
yep the dap of grease does miracles
"Then Jackie made a post and said "use a dab of grease on both sides to hold the wires...". No more cussing.
Wayne,
Jackie makes everything way to simple! Thats one of the reasons why he's the man.
I on the other hand usually search for the most complicated way to do something and work backwards from there.
Good thing I don't have to make living at this, or I would need to change my ways!
"I use them on every tenon, you think you have the threads looking good, but the wires tell you if you're right or wrong."
Yeh, It didn't take me to long to figure out that it was a lot easier and quicker to verify everything BEFORE you take it out of the setup!
To Jackie's point of always having time to do it right the 2nd time.
Regards,
Greg
Wayne,
Jackie makes everything way to simple! Thats one of the reasons why he's the man.
I on the other hand usually search for the most complicated way to do something and work backwards from there.
Good thing I don't have to make living at this, or I would need to change my ways!
"I use them on every tenon, you think you have the threads looking good, but the wires tell you if you're right or wrong."
Yeh, It didn't take me to long to figure out that it was a lot easier and quicker to verify everything BEFORE you take it out of the setup!
To Jackie's point of always having time to do it right the 2nd time.
Regards,
Greg
Yes, but what about the thickness of the grease causing over size measurements of the threads?
Just kidding!
I'm sure most have heard of this trick, but along with a bit of grease, my dad told me to use a piece of tape, two wires stuck to one side, one wire stuck on the other side, to help manage the wires. It does help. If nothing else, a bright piece of tape makes the wires easier to find when they fall off! A paper towel or something similar draped over the ways helps capture errant wires as well.
I wonder how many thread wires have been lost in chip pans over the years?
Justin
Yes, but what about the thickness of the grease causing over size measurements of the threads?
Just kidding!
Justin
Justin,
I was just waiting for someone to bring that up!
I actually had a conversation with someone at a well known action mfg a few years back who tried to convince me that an action that made it out
with out of spec threads was do to them changing the type of grease they used on their test gauge! I didn't even know how to respond.
At least they made it right, in our litigious society these days , no one wants to admit they ever did something wrong.
Greg
Justin,
I was just waiting for someone to bring that up!
I actually had a conversation with someone at a well known action mfg a few years back who tried to convince me that an action that made it out
with out of spec threads was do to them changing the type of grease they used on their test gauge! I didn't even know how to respond.
At least they made it right, in our litigious society these days , no one wants to admit they ever did something wrong.
Greg
Greg,
That must have been some nasty a$$ grease, huh?
Justin
Seriously.
Never seen any grease with particles in it large enough to affect a thread measurement.
You should see the stuff for the crawler bearings to move rockets around.
The only thing I could think of is some of the greases that require heating to perform.
All you need is enough pressure to drive the grease out from between the threads and the wires.
It is not a lot of force.