Need help and advice!!

B

Butch Lambert

Active member
I have in my possession Red Cornelison's unlimited bag gun. For you youngsters, Red was a member of the first class of the BR Hall of Fame. I will try to sell it for his widow, Bonnie. Jay Lynn Gore and I are taking it apart and will go through a thorough detail job. Shilen has volunteered to reblue the 17" long Charlie Williams unlimited receiver. It is chambered in 23-40 at the present. I think I still have brass for it. Jay Lynn and I wondered if I should rechamber it in 220 Beggs as it would be easier to shoot for a lot of the guys. I really would like to find somebody that would help us by reshaping the laminated walnut railroad tie stock to something more usable and eye appealing. It has 3 1/2" guide rods in the bottom of the stock, 2 in front and one in the butt. Any helpers or ideas would be appreciated.
Butch
 
Hey, Butch, if it's a historical piece, maybe it's worth more in original condition? I realize you are thinkg of making it more practical, thus appealing to more potential buyers, but keeping it original would be something to consider.
 
I would NOT reblue or redo anything. If there is a collector out there, they would want it "as-is", and not refinished in any way, and you will not do the value any good by rechambering it either. You will do nothing but destroy the collector value if you even start to polish anything.
Ron
 
Glenn

Tom Gillman is in the HOF as is Red. Both are deceased now. Tom died just a few months ago. Those were two great shooters. I have some .22 bullets made by Red and they are very good. Butch gave them to me several years ago, and I, like you, am interested in the equipment of the shooters of yesteryear. Good shooting...James
 
Functional piece of history!

Howdy Butch!
I would respectfully suggest that you leave it as is other than the thorough cleaning. It can reasonably be argued that it is a functional piece of history. You might even work up some loads for it, and keep the targets showing what the ingenuity and technology of the time was capable of. If you can find old photos with the rifle and Red in it, that would be cool.

Think of it like this, if it showed up on Antiques Road Show with changes to what modern tastes would be on the stock, and refinished, it would have lost a part of the charm it currently has. Not to mention value! The more documentation you have, the more interesting it becomes to a prospective buyer.

Changes hurt it. It is history, let it remain that.

I have Eric Johnson Straight Pull serial #1. There are 2 serial #1s. The prototype that he kept 'till he passed away, that was never polished and blued. And then there is the serial #1 that I have that was one of 5 commercial ones. I have found photos of Johnson shooting a straight pull in a couple of different American Rifleman magazines. It is too long to type here, but I can make an EXTREMELY persuasive argument that I own the rifle in the AR photos. The best pic is in the August 1933 AR talking about the rimfire shoots at Sea Girt New Jersey. An early home of rimfire action. The pic is definitive on the action that it is a straight pull. But the stock has been changed somewhere down the road. It is distinctive, and definitely early, and may have been made by Johnson. But I can't prove it. Yet.

The point is not to talk about my rifle, but to illustrate how a rifle can get more interesting if left as a piece of history, with documentation to go with it.

His wife may have an abundance of info, and you just may find published photos, match reports etc.

Butch, you have more experience and wisdom than I do, but consider the above suggestions, I do not think you will regret it.

Take care, and have fun with it!
Greg
 
gun gallery?

It would be nice if Benchrest Central had a gallery where the moderaters could post photos of the history of benchrest that would show the changes through the decades. Pay tribute to the hall of fame shooters and their gear.
 
My intent is to help Mrs. Cornelison as much as possible. I will go out on a limb and state that Red experimented with more wildcats than PO Ackley and the other old timers. Cheechako on this forum has a huge collection of wildcats and can verify a lot of them. I still have some of his necked down 22 mag and 22lr to 17 and 14 cal way before Hornady came out with their stuff. I have about 4 different versions of the 219 Wasp and also the 6mm wasp. I have wildcats from 50BMG, from 225 Win, 30-40 Krag, shortened mag cases, necked and shortened mag cases, 22-30, 22-35, 2240, 222 1/2, the old 6X47. I also have the following brass without headstamp and flash holes, 222, 223, 222 mag, 223 with a long neck, 30-30, 250 Savage, magnum basic brass, and I also had 2 cases of primed and not loaded rimfire brass. I had one pickup load of brass, bullets, and misc dies and loading equip. from his shop. A couple years before he passed away I took a rt. bolt, left port 40X action to the Crawfish in Louisana to give to another shooter. May have been Frank Wilson. Red was a quiet and very kind man. He had a great relationship with the firearms manufacturers. I heard only 2 or 3 of the 40X receivers were made in RB and Left port. Red shortened his BR cases, drilled the flash holes, shortened them, and necked them to 22. He turned the outside of the necks about .200 down and then did a tight neck size. That way he had a step for his bullets to set on. Red would knock out the primers, reprime, add powder, and then with his fingers put the bullet in and push it to the step. No sizing to mess up the cases. This is what Red called his 22 Red Russian. Below is the unlimited rifle.
DSC02473.jpg

DSC02474.jpg

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The bore is in excellent shape and it has a Charlie Williams 2 oz trigger, the predecessor of the Shilen trigger I believe. I'm sure it will shoot great as is, but thought it may look better cleaned up.
Butch
 
Boy, that is a railroad tie for a stock..........Butch, how much does the gun weigh?
 
Not as heavy as I thought 29lbs. I do have a lot of spare parts for the Benchmaster receivers and I think I have one more receiver like this one and also an aluminum one with inserts.
Butch
 
Butch,
Thanks for posting the photos and alittle bit of history about Red. I love reading and learning about the old wildcaters and there ideas.
 
Butch, you'll never sell it so we might as well work out something so I can take it off your hands :) For those of you who don't know, Charlie made an build a lot of stuff for BR shooters an one great man. If anyone knows any more than Butch on these things........... call me!! I had serial #1 Bench Master action. In other words, Butch, leave it as is. It has too much history.

Jeff Aberegg
 
Maybe we need a Benchrest museum. People like Red, and all the others that were experimenters built some strange and wonderful contraptions back in those days. I understand the need for funds for Mrs. Cornelison, but that rifle and others need to be put in a museum somewhere. Now, how do we go about that?

Donald
 
JD Mock said:
Tom Gillman is in the HOF as is Red. Both are deceased now. Tom died just a few months ago. Those were two great shooters. I have some .22 bullets made by Red and they are very good. Butch gave them to me several years ago, and I, like you, am interested in the equipment of the shooters of yesteryear. Good shooting...James
Click to expand...

JD I did not know Tom had died. He only retired a few years ago. Wow....I'm getting old!

Mike
 
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