Need a coating that is slippery to N133 and ideas for powder pumps.

M

maccluer

New member
Ever since my Harrell (Schuentzen) measure went beserk at the NBRSA Nationals, I've been milling up more accurate versions that dispense only within the range 28--31 gr of N133. (I sent back the Schuentzen but Harrell says nothing is amiss in spite of its tolerances rattling like a service 1911 and in spite of it throwing errors of .4 grs.)

I need a recommendation of a coating like teflon that will adhere to aluminium and 'repel' N133. It should not only be smooth/slick when set but also have surface charge to repel the sticks of powder. I'm hoping someone else has already done the experimentation.

P.S. By the way, a neat idea I've been trying is to exploit the conductivity of N133 (10kOhm/inch) to make a powder pump using the force generated by a current thru the powder pependicular to a strong magnetic field. I've also tried precision timing with NE555 activation of tiny solenoids in a drop tube with no success --- the armature cuts powder and does not reliably close. Ah, the joys of retirement.

Chuck
 
Hi Chuck,
What about a Neil Jones? I think, that Jack N. and Joe use one. And they rave about them....
Tim B.
 
Mac -

Ok... I gotta ask:

Have you given any thought to going with a "digi" powder measure ?

Regards,
357Mag
 
In my experience, N133 is a bugger of a powder to measure through any thrower. I have a custom built thrower that is extremely good with all powders except N133 - occasional variations of up to 0.5gn are not uncommon. I don't know why N133 should give this problem, but a number of shooters of my aquaintance have had the same problem - so it's not just me. I use the Chargemaster now if I am going to use this powder.
 
I am curious as to why you chose the measure ,that you ended up sending back, since it has a listed maximum charge of 25 grains? I agree that 133 is harder to throw consistently than several other powders that may be successfully used in a 6PPC. To improve my results throwing 133, I have done a lot of experimenting with measure operation technique, weighing thrown charges with a good electronic scale. I can tell you that not all measures do their best work using the same technique, and that technique, and the consistency with which it is applied have large effects on the quality of results obtained. The result of all of this it that I have gotten better at throwing 133, and an understanding of why,ultimately, the answer may be a RCBS Chargemaster, and battery pack.
 
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Boyd Allen said:
I am curious as to why you chose the measure ,that you ended up sending back, since it has a listed maximum charge of 25 grains? I agree that 133 is harder to throw consistently than several other powders that may be successfully used in a 6PPC. To improve my results throwing 133, I have done a lot of experimenting with measure operation technique, weighing thrown charges with a good electronic scale. I can tell you that not all measures do their best work using the same technique, and that technique, and the consistency with which it is applied have large effects on the quality of results obtained. The result of all of this it that I have gotten better at throwing 133, and an understanding of why,ultimately, the answer may be a RCBS Chargemaster, and battery pack.
Click to expand...
Boyd Allen, why is 133 so much different when measuring
 
LEH:

Thanks for the lead on Slip Plate.

I also had the identical conversation with Harrell. I followed his directions and the measure would malf every (say) 7 throws with a 4% error. That's what loses aggs.
 
357Mag:

Yes, I immediately bought a RCBS Charge Master --- a great unit but slow slow slow. Takes up too much of the time between relays.
 
Boyd:

I have used the little Schuetzen for years with a double throw. (A double throw reduces the standard deviation by 1/sqrt(2). ) It's now evidently worn out. At the end of this season I used a Charge Master but it's excrutiatingly slow.
 
Tim B:

I didn't realize Jack and Joe used the Jones. I'll look into it if my attempts to mill one of my own are unsuccessful (but it's looking good). Chuck
 
Bob,
I assume that it is because it has slightly larger grains than 322, Benchmark, and 8208.

maccluer,
If you were throwing a 25 gr. load, 4% would be a whole grain error. If you are getting that much error, you are doing something seriously wrong. I have a lot of time in on a Harrell measure, and I am confident that I can hit +- .15gr with no problems. That is being conservative, with 133. With 322 or Benchmark I can do better. I have had some experience watching someone attempting something that I had clearly explained ( I thought) how to do. Depending on the person, there can be a lot lost between ear and hand. This is not an intelligence thing, but a matter of the differences in how people learn. One more thing, what sort of scale do you check your throws with? I didn't really learn what was going on with my measure technique until I had the us of a better scale than I had been using. You never said how you were throwing 30 gr. with a measure that is only supposed to do 25.
 
maccluer said:
Boyd:

I have used the little Schuetzen for years with a double throw. (A double throw reduces the standard deviation by 1/sqrt(2). ) It's now evidently worn out. At the end of this season I used a Charge Master but it's excrutiatingly slow.
Click to expand...

Some how or another you can go into the programming of the chargemaster and speed it up. I don't have one, so don't know how to do it, but am pretty sure you can find how to do it on a web search. I know quite a few shooters at the NBRSA nationals had done this to their Chargemasters. Here's one link that I found on a search to programming the Chargemaster.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/speed-up-your-rcbs-chargemaster/
 
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The problem with metering V133....just dump a little in a white lid and take a close look at it, the answer jumps right out at you.

Hovis
 
Mike Bryant said:
Some how or another you can go into the programming of the chargemaster and speed it up. I don't have one, so don't know how to do it, but am pretty sure you can find how to do it on a web search. I know quite a few shooters at the NBRSA nationals had done this to their Chargemasters. Here's one link that I found on a search to programming the Chargemaster.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/speed-up-your-rcbs-chargemaster/
Click to expand...

Mike is right the Chargemaster 1500 can easily be programed to speed up dispensing powder. The link Mike gave has another link within it that lists all the programing codes. I didn't think that a dummy like myself could do it but Wayne Campbell walked me through it on my unit at Unaka this past season and it made all the difference in the world dispensing n-133 , XBR or 8208.

Rodney
 
the original 8208..is a very short grain, and will meter thru a harrells at about +/- 0.05...for a one tenth total variation......as has been seen/shown/talked about n133 is much larger and more varied.....more like +/- 0.2 a 4 tenth variation..and some see higher. the new 8208 is not as small as the original and does aprox +/- 0.1 or so( without going back and looking at my original post on the comp forum.....now if it had just behaved like the original..oh well)..........for +/- one tenth with n133...i think the way to go is the chargemaster.....for better than that the lab scales are the way to go..the replacement for the mx123 is out and is listed at sinclairs at $300....

mike in co
 
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Boyd:

I used a double throw with the pistol measure to get 29+ gr. (A double throw reduces the standard deviation by a factor of 1/sqrt(2).)

Chuck
 
You have verified this by using an accurate digital scale to weigh a large number of charges, in a single continuous session?
 
i'm with boyd. whilie it reduces the min, the max doubles........if the measure does plus or minus .05... on the small end than means the first throw is minus .05 and the second is plus .05 then one has a perfect end results, but on the other end if the first throw is minus .05 and so is the second, then you have a minus .1 , and if the next is the opposite( two plus .05's) then you have a plus .1....for a spread of 0.2.......

while i have not used the small measure, i doubt it is actually 0.05, it is probably plus or minus .1....which means when doing two throws, one has the possibilty of being plus or minus .2 or a .4 spread........
math is great, so is statistics, but reality is what actually happens.....somewhere between a .2 and a .4 spread.....if you are lucky....

mike in co
 
Chuck.
Larry Fuesse can reprogram your Chargemaster. He might be at WWCCA 12-12-10 for an NBRSA Score match. 10am. We usually come preloaded. Ron Robo. usually loads at the range. At his reserved bench.
 
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