Neck turning 6 PPC brass

H

hedditch

Guest
Had my Cooper 6 PPC rechambered and it came back with a .262 neck. A lot of people seem to be shooting this neck size. My problem is I am using Norma Brass and it measures out with the bullet in it to .265. Correct me if I am wrong but looks to me I have to take off or neck turn a total of .006 to give the case neck some roon to expand upon firing. I am having a problelm taking off that much brass uniformily and without ruining some cases. To me all of this is really a pain in the butt. So, is my thinking and my math right? Do I try to find another reamer with a larger neck, say a .267 neck? My neck turners are a Forester and a Lyman and I used a powered screw driver for a driver. I am trying to take all the brass off in one pass. I found I can get a reamer with a .265 neck which would mean less neck turning. What is everyone opinion? Talk to me on what I am doing wrong or what I should do differently.
 
Your case necks should be reduced in thickness by slightly less than .003 (per side, not diameter reduction). What sort of tool and procedure are you using? Typically, I turn to very close tolerances, with very simple tools, and no case loss. I think that you must be doing something incorrectly. Describe your entire method, and what tools you use, and maybe we can figure it out.
 
Yup, I am taking off .003 per side which gives me a diameter reduction of .006. I am using a Forester outside neck turner and/or a Lyman. I have both. Again, I take it all off in one pass. Should I take off less per pass and make more passes? I use a Sinclair mandrel to make sure the necks are all the same before I neck turn. The pilots on both case neck turners are tight fitting. What else?
 
Are you talking about neck turners that are attachments for case trimmers? If you are, that could be your problem. I don't know of anyone that competes that uses a trimmer to turn. Also, what kind of lube are you using?
 
Hedditch ...

hedditch said:
Had my Cooper 6 PPC rechambered and it came back with a .262 neck. A lot of people seem to be shooting this neck size. My problem is I am using Norma Brass and it measures out with the bullet in it to .265. Correct me if I am wrong but looks to me I have to take off or neck turn a total of .006 to give the case neck some roon to expand upon firing. I am having a problelm taking off that much brass uniformily and without ruining some cases. To me all of this is really a pain in the butt.

So, is my thinking and my math right? Do I try to find another reamer with a larger neck, say a .267 neck? My neck turners are a Forester and a Lyman and I used a powered screw driver for a driver. I am trying to take all the brass off in one pass.

I found I can get a reamer with a .265 neck which would mean less neck turning. What is everyone opinion? Talk to me on what I am doing wrong or what I should do differently.
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First, Ken Markle, who was the original owner of K&M, once told me that he did an experiment one day and was able to take .015" [15/1000"] off with one pass using his Neck Turner. .006" should be a walk in the park.

Second, if you're not into neck turning, and you think you never will be, then my recommendation is to give Dave Kiff a call at Pacific Tool & Gauge. His link: http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/. He can fix you up with a [no-turn] neck reamer that will satisfy your needs, and discuss the options and considerations if you decide to change 6PPC brass and bullets later on.

As long as you continue to use HIGH QUALITY brass like the new Norma brass [or Lapua] and HIGH QUALITY custom made bullets you'll be OK if you decide on going with a fairly tight no-turn neck. If you knew you'd ALWAYS be using Norma brass and get a .265" no-turn neck loaded round then a .267" chamber would be perfect. However, since things are never perfect, perhaps a .268" chamber might be better. If you decided to use Lapua which is excellent brass and cheaper than Norma, but a thicker brass, a larger no-turn neck reamer would be in order.

I just measured a piece of Lapua 220 Russian brass that's been necked up to 6mm, "not" turned yet, and seated one of Bart Sauter's Utra bullets. It measured .2716 to .2718. to give you an idea in the differences with Norma. Check with Dave.

By turning, even very lightly, you can make up for some of the +/-s built into even the best of companies' manufacturing tolerances. ;)
 
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1st things first.
Yes your going to have to turn your necks.
Do the math to get the very maximum you want to use and then go from there.
.262 neck

.243 bullet
.0085 x2
will give you .260 with .002 clearance.
So you would turn your neck to .0085 for the .002 clearance.

Next get a reputable neck turner,.
If your not going to shoot benchrest then there are a number of standard manufaturer ones like Hornady.
However if you get hooked like most of us did then you might as well buy a good one to start with.

I am sure there will be lots of people chime in here with the ones they like best. Otherwise just do a search for neck turners and study up.
 
hedditch said:
Had my Cooper 6 PPC rechambered and it came back with a .262 neck. A lot of people seem to be shooting this neck size. My problem is I am using Norma Brass and it measures out with the bullet in it to .265. Correct me if I am wrong but looks to me I have to take off or neck turn a total of .006 to give the case neck some roon to expand upon firing. I am having a problelm taking off that much brass uniformily and without ruining some cases. To me all of this is really a pain in the butt. So, is my thinking and my math right? Do I try to find another reamer with a larger neck, say a .267 neck? My neck turners are a Forester and a Lyman and I used a powered screw driver for a driver. I am trying to take all the brass off in one pass. I found I can get a reamer with a .265 neck which would mean less neck turning. What is everyone opinion? Talk to me on what I am doing wrong or what I should do differently.
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If I were you, I would return the rifle to your gunsmith and have it rechambered with a no-turn reamer. This is something that should have been discussed before the new barrel was installed. A Cooper is a fine rifle, but it is not an all out benchrest rifle. If a rifle is to be used for hunting and casual target shooting, it should be chambered for no-turn brass.

Gene Beggs
 
Don't, please don't, mix mandrels and turners! Stick with MATCHED sets. Sinclair turner and Sinclair mandrel for example. The results are much better.
 
Boydd Allen: I am using a case trimmers with neck turning attachments. Lube? Where do I put it on the pilot or the outside of the neck? What kind of lube? If on the pilot, how does one remove the lube before dropping powder?

Art: I guess I will have to look into getting a different neck turner. Suggestions? I am also leaning towards purchasing a .267 reamer if I can't get this neck turning procedure to really work for me since I have about 700 Norma PPC brass and near 500 of those are unfired. Does the K & M have a different brand name since Ken Markle sold out? Right now I sure don't have matched sets of anything.

Vern: What are your suggestions for a reputable neck turner. Art mentioned a K & M.


Gene, I agree, the Cooper doesn't meet the qualifications of a benchrest rifle. In my last local competition I shot 5, 5 shot groups at 100 yds and my aggregate was .317. Yes, the guys with the benchrest rifles are kicking my butt but once in a while, I do get lucky.
 
Dave
The lube goes on the mandrel that goes on the inside of the neck. The best lube I have found is synthetic motor oil.
Just clean the cases when through I use laq thinner or acetone.

Type of case neck turner,, K&M are suppose to be good, Sinclair are good those would be the first 2 I would suggest.
 
hedditch said:
Art: I guess I will have to look into getting a different neck turner. Suggestions? I am also leaning towards purchasing a .267 reamer if I can't get this neck turning procedure to really work for me since I have about 700 Norma PPC brass and near 500 of those are unfired. Does the K & M have a different brand name since Ken Markle sold out? Right now I sure don't have matched sets of anything.
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Sinclair makes very nice equipment, I have lots of their stuff. Since you already have the mandrel, just add their turner for a matched set.

I happen to like K&M: http://www.kmshooting.com/index.php [the new site] because of the fine threads that are used for .0001" adjustments and the prices are very competitive. I just added a Pendergraft Holder for the K&M Turner to help ease an old left thumb golf injury and aide with current physical therapy [see attachment, courtesy of German Salazar]. Works great!

If you want the Cadillac version go to Kelbly's: http://www.kelbly.com/main.html, and ask for Don Nielson's excellent "Pumpkin" turner. His turner and mandrel will set you back three pictures of Franklin + $10 before shipping. Compare that to the K&M and you'll see why I've used the K&M so far. :)
 

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You need a no-turn neck. At this point, folks, would not getting a really good smith to open the throat without a full rechambering be an option?
 
Yo abintx,
you got my attention with that picture, I really like the device you have that K&M turner in! Did you make it or buy it from someone? I have a Don neilson for my 6ppc but I use a K&N for my 30X47 and that device would sure make turning much easier!
 
Steelhead1 ...

Steelhead1 said:
I really like the device you have that K&M turner in! Did you make it or buy it from someone? I have a Don neilson for my 6ppc but I use a K&M for my 30X47 and that device would sure make turning much easier!
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Here's the source for this very well made Holder:

If you have questions or want to order the K&M holder contact Joel Pendergraft via email at joelpend@bellsouth.net.

$48 includes shipment via Priority Mail.

This is the address: Joel Pendergraft 7619 Kennebec Drive, Chapel Hill, NC 27517

It weighs just over half a pound, 8 and 7/8 ounces according to my scale. Feels good in the hand.

Art
 
Art I dont find any link at Kelbly's for turners of any sort.
But paying 300 for pumpkin.
I think their heads must have swolloen like one.
Sinclair top of the line or the K&M is half that.
No wonder a certain action maker started making and selling them for 75 a few years ago. I just wish they still had some.
 
Vern
You will find the Pumpkin neck turner mentioned on Kelbly's price sheet. Not a lot of information there. I have owned a number of neck turners and still do. Yes the Pumpkin is Pricey but most of the people who have used one for a while (myself included) feel it is worth it.

David H
You would have been better served with a no turn neck chambering job. Now that you have what you have an inexpensive K&M might be your simplest and most reasonably priced alternative, the Forster or Lyman are not going to do what you need IMO, just not precision enough

Dick
.
 
David - I have a Forester and it is OK for the first stage rough turning of necks, say taking off .008-.012". But it cuts very rough for neck turning finer than that. I use the K&M to finish turning necks and it does a great job.
 
You need to get your neck opened up from the .262. With the new brass available today there is no reason to use a .262 neck. .268, .269, .270 any of these should work in your Cooper. Personally I use a .269 and with Lapua brass I only have to remove about .0015 per side to get a loaded round with a .267 diameter. Your smith should never have taken upon himself to use a reamer with a .262 neck, or else you should have asked what the neck diameter was. Get a throat reamer and open that booger up. Cases last longer, don't dent near as bad.

Donald
 
Yes, Kelbly's make it hard to find. It's in their catalog, with no pictures. However, you have to call and ask what tools of Nielson's they carry and at what price ... since it says to call for pricing. It's a little challenging for the customer, but it's carried there.
 
Vern,
your right,it's a lot of money,but it turned a process that is a pain in the rear to one that is almost enjoyable! It would be nice if the cost was only $300.00, I really took the plunge and bought the case turning motor by Don and then the neck expander was another $30.00, I think the final bill was almost 700.00, so if you don't turn a bunch of brass it's not worth the cost. I can also say that if you have arthritus in your hands this was the best thing to do, my hands don't hurt for days after turning brass anymore.
 
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