My AR15 shooting test with and without a flash hider.

VaniB

New member
I'm sure some of you guys are aware that some AR15 shooters will purposely exclude a Flash Hider from their barrels to eliminate any possibility of accuracy loss. I'm sure the $3,000 Les Baer rifle which is guaranteed to shoot 1/2" 5 shot groups is offered only without a FH just for this reason.

But, have you ever considered that just the opposite can also be the case in some instancer?! I'd like to confirm this;

Recently I had a 20" RR National Match barrel recontoured and shortened to 18". I shaved the full length of the barrel down to a .750" diameter. My rifle is adorned with a Daniel Defense rail and a collapsible stock. It is my preferencve for my AR rifles to be lighter and more tactical in style, but to still be accurate. Yesterday I headed to the range with my newly modified barrel. I knew how this barrel had shot in the past when it was a heavy 20" NM barrel and what loads it preferred. I took the same 10 precision handloaded rounds along with me to the range, except this time I had left the flash hider off of the barrel, and put it in my field box with a creasant wrench on standby. I had known that often there is no change in accuracy with or without a flash hider, but if there was to be an affect, accuracy would likely be better without a FH. So I figured I'd try it first without the FH. From off of my Hart rifle rest and using wind flags I proceeded to fire a 5 shot group with the bare barrel. I was not happy to see a 1 1/4" group with shots scattered all through that group and no clustering pattern of the shots. Prevoiusly, 3/4" to 1" groups and sometimes tighter had been the norm with the 20" barrel. With an attitude of "Oh well. I might as well fire off the next 5 handloads just to be sure", I proceeded to install the flash hider onto the muzzle threads first, and then fire another 5 shot group. This was a 1" group with the first shot of the group being seperated high up by itself, and the remaining 4 shots clustered into a 9/16" group.

Obviously, the standard "bird-cage" FH had changed the harmonics of the barrel and improved the accuracy. So, we can't always assume that what seems to work most of the time will work all of the time....as it is usually assumed that it's best to omit flash hiders or other attachments from a barrel when seeking accuracy. Had I requested for the muzzle threads and FH be cut off and removed from the barrel, I'd have ruined a fine barrel and likely never known the true cause for the loss of accuracy. I'd have believed that the radical recontouring had spoiled the barrel, and blown a fast $160 in doing it.
 
Not to disagree with your premise, but let me propose something else that relates. I assume that your precision handloads were the the product of a load workup done with your barrel in its larger and longer configuration. Perhaps you should do a similar workup with the "new" barrel, since it's vibration frequency and patterns have undoubtedly been changed. Also, based on work done with tuners on bolt action rifles, a load that is tuned for a bare barrel may not shoot the same with added weight at the muzzle, and vice versa.
 
what boyd said.
you changed TWO things( bbl and flashsuppressor), but are claiming the change in accuracy is from one of the two...how do you know that ?
you need to install the flash supressor, work up loads to the best, then remove and see what happens...THEN work up loads WITHOUT the suppressor and see how they compare to the best with the suppresssor.
that would be a valid test.
mike in co
 
I'm not sure, but it'd seem to me that how tight the flash suppressor is screwed onto the barrel could influence accuracy as well. Along with that what Boyd and Mike said. You can't change two things find a difference then blame the change on one of them. Change one thing at a time.
 
I'm not sure, but it'd seem to me that how tight the flash suppressor is screwed onto the barrel could influence accuracy as well. Along with that what Boyd and Mike said. You can't change two things find a difference then blame the change on one of them. Change one thing at a time.

Rethinking this....you're partly right that I can't change things, like leave off the FH, and then be surprised the accuracy has changed.

The bottom line is, and what has evidently happened here is that nothing changed after the alteration; I shaved the NM barrel down to 3/4" full length, shortened it 2", and the good accuracy remained the same......as long as I kept the FH on it just as was before. I'm not sure the tightness of the FH has anything to do with the point in this discussion, as the test isn't about comparing a loose FH compared to a tight FH

What I have gotten out of my test results is overwhelming evidence that if you want the same good accuracy using the same loads you've already tested, then keep the muzzle attachments (or lack of) just the same. I can do just fine with NOT having to spend many hours developing new loads for the same barrel if I don't have to. So I'm glad I didn't have them remove the threads to permanently omit the FH.
 
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What you have gotten out of your tests is.........



nothing. :)


Except personal satisfaction that is, and personal satisfaction is enough.

YOU'RE happy! :)

Nuttin' here worth arguing about IMO, unless someone who's reading this is getting ready to spend his hard-earned money.

Which is why I posted this response.

al
 
Hmmmm....?
Boyd & Elliot.....do you believe in ghosts? I sense a sought of haunting and a cold breeze or two whisk through the thread.
 
AVaniB yer needs ta change brands I'm thinkin'. Been listenin' ta to much Coast to Coast AM methinks. :D:D
 
more likely wind blowing thru someone's ears...sorta like the first post....hot air
 
Well, I'm not gettin' in the middle of this for sure but VaniB said it again when he wrote:

"So, we can't always assume that what seems to work most of the time will work all of the time...."

Everything we believe to improve accuracy was established in our minds by starting with a thought that had no basis.
 
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