Muzzle brake

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IRV WELLS

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I am planning on having a muzzle brake installed on a cz .416 rigby. Has anyone experience with taming the recoil on this caliber? What brand reduces recoil the most efficiently and is as quiet as possible? Thanks
 
The quietest brakes I have installed are Vais... they work well. Quiet isn't a big factor though... all large rifles with or without a brake are loud.
 
I am planning on having a muzzle brake installed on a cz .416 rigby. Has anyone experience with taming the recoil on this caliber? What brand reduces recoil the most efficiently and is as quiet as possible? Thanks

When it come to muzzle brakes, quiet and effective are a contradiction. You can't have both.---Mike Ezell
 
When it come to muzzle brakes, quiet and effective are a contradiction. You can't have both.---Mike Ezell

Hi Mike, How are you?

The Vais first sets up gas flow through a set of ports that run parallel to the bore. As the bullet reaches the radial ports, the gas that vents through them collides with the gas flowing through the parallel ports. The result is very effective recoil reduction without the nasty increase in noise levels behind the rifle.

The Vais is more expensive than most, but is the only brake I care to use. Ron Bartlett is excellent to deal with, and the workmanship is very good....and you don't have to put up with an earth-shattering KABOOM like you do other brakes.

-Dave-:)

-Dave-:)
 
If you go to Ron's web site and read about recoil reduction you will see that the larger bores get less recoil reduction than the smaller bores. I have a feeling this maybe true with all the brakes.

Never the less, it's (Vais) is the only brake I ever recommend to anyone.
 
Its just a thought........

but you might just speak w/Ron Smith, over at Smith Enterprise, he makes brakes for M-1s, M1As, & ARs. They are really effective, the Garand & M1As feel mutch like .243s. I'm not saying its THE thing to have, but he's wanting to get more word out on that aspect, I'm told. He is VERY busy, a great deal of contract work for the services, right now. Talk to him, you might work out something on the experimental side that will be mutually beneficial. He does make a high quality product, & I can attest, it works well on the platforms I've used them on, I've installed three, & on my recommendation, another 'smith installed three, & he was(figuratively) blown away w/the results.:rolleyes:
 
A few of some of the styles I have installed. All are threaded on for ease of cleaning the barrel.

I like the Shrewd brake for looks and excellent performance...I was making almost an identical brake from scratch for a few years when Shrewd came out with theirs... so I switched to them.

I like the Vais for being more quiet.

I have installed a few Holland brakes but I don't particularly like any brake that requires the extra work of indexing it.

3%20brakes%20profile.jpg

Holland%20Brake.jpg

thin%20barrel%20brake%201.jpg

thin%20barrel%20brake%202.jpg

thin%20barrel%20matte%20brake.jpg
 
While some may argue with this, "quieter" is subjective. What's quieter to YOU may well be even louder to your neighbor. As Dennis points out, the sound is THERE, all the muzzle brake does is redirect it.


A muzzle brake works by grabbing leftover gas which is flowing forward at high velocity. These gases are destined for the "quietest" place that they can go for YOU the shooter.....straight away. When the brake grabs the gas flow it turns it outward and perhaps backward towards you.

It's the "weight" or mass of the gasses hitting (colliding with) the surfaces on the muzzle brake which actually PULL the gun forward away from you. Basically the "louder" the brake is the more effective it is..........kinda'.

As far as the effectiveness of a brake on the 416, IMO this isn't the best candidate for the brake because the 416R is a fairly efficient round. IT WILL WORK, and it will make the recoil bearable but it will not be as effective as it is on some of the overbore rounds. The brake uses excess ejecta, the stuff BEHIND the bullet, to do it's work and the 416R has less ejecta/bullet weight than some other rounds. IMO a longer barrel also helps simply by providing a larger gas reservoir, but I've never tested this. I do know this, shooting something like a BMG is a frightening experience for me :) My overactive imagination pictures just how much force it's generating and that 1/4" of rearward motion before the brake grabs is like being tethered to a runaway train...... I'm just glad every time that the brake doesn't fly off :D



BTW, to be truly effective the muzzle brake should have an external shroud around it so that it can do its work and STILL direct the sound forward and away from the shooter....while containing and dissipating some of the shockwaves.


Unfortunately our beloved countrymen have voted that we can't have these.

bummer....


al
 
The decible level does not increase but the sound is not directed forward as much as it is without a brake, increasing the perceived sound level. I'm not going to argue muzzle brakes on here but there is alot of gas left over after pulling forward on the brake that still would be working hard at pushing the gun rearward without a brake.---Mike Ezell
 
The decible level does not increase but the sound is not directed forward as much as it is without a brake, increasing the perceived sound level. I'm not going to argue muzzle brakes on here but there is alot of gas left over after pulling forward on the brake that still would be working hard at pushing the gun rearward without a brake.---Mike Ezell

Well, no.

There is no such thing as a "jet effect" as commonly described. There is no "pushing on the air" neither, just Newton's laws of motion. If anything that leftover gas is pulling forward on the barrel from surface friction......but not very much. :D

al
 
Well, no.

There is no such thing as a "jet effect" as commonly described. There is no "pushing on the air" neither, just Newton's laws of motion. If anything that leftover gas is pulling forward on the barrel from surface friction......but not very much. :D

al


Al,

What am I experiencing when a larger diameter brake seems to work better when all other specifications are equal? ... I have always felt it was the "jet" effect of the longer ports... not the 1 or 2 ounces more weight...

Dennis
 
The most effective is the clamshell type - such as the JPRifles brake. It has a larger surface area for the gas to hit and pull the weight forward. Same style brake as used on many tanks.

I believe that this is also the reason a larger diameter regular brake works better than a smaller diameter brake. The "tunnels" are longer due to the increase in diameter giving the gas more surface area to act against.

The clamshell types redirect more gas to the sides - therefore more noise to the sides and they are ugly. Very effective though.

www.jprifles.com
 
Al,

What am I experiencing when a larger diameter brake seems to work better when all other specifications are equal? ... I have always felt it was the "jet" effect of the longer ports... not the 1 or 2 ounces more weight...

Dennis

Dennis,

I'll take at face value the statement, "larger diameter.....all other specifications being equal," and side with Andrew. Based on your description this would seem to indicate larger contact surfaces. As Andrew stated, the clamshell with it's huge impact plates is the most effective.

You're right, it's not the added weight. In fact, adding weight to the system can work against you as the brake then has to overcome the increased rearward momentum. To illustrate this, I once fired a 15lb 50BMG. THIS is the "frightening" rifle I referred to. That first 1/4" of recoil was completely unstoppable. No matter how you set, no matter how hard you tightened up, it'd just power through you as if you weren't there. Then the brake would catch.......WHEWWWW!WW. This thing would send an earthquake tremor through the shooter, top to bottom. I watched several other guys shoot it and it looked like a break dance move, a ripple would run clear to the recipients feet. The "catch" was obvious. I've also fired 22 and 50lbers and these aren't nearly as shocking. The recoil is longer and softer, kinda' like a gas op semi-auto. . . . . . . kinda' :rolleyes:


Regarding the existence of a "jet effect" from the ejecta pushing on atmosphere. Jets work in space. Do you REALLY think those moonshot engineers were wondering "hey, will this rocket work with no air to push against??" :)

Recoil is a product of acceleration in a closed system. Once that bullet leaves you've got an OPEN system, no more pushy.....

al
 
YEP, that's why jets don't work in space, no air for combustion. Rockets on the other hand don't need air for combustion, the oxidizer is already in the fuel. If there is no air in space (and there isn't) then what pushes the rockets?
 
Dennis,

I'll take at face value the statement, "larger diameter.....all other specifications being equal," and side with Andrew. Based on your description this would seem to indicate larger contact surfaces.

Regarding the existence of a "jet effect" from the ejecta pushing on atmosphere. Jets work in space. Do you REALLY think those moonshot engineers were wondering "hey, will this rocket work with no air to push against??" :)

Recoil is a product of acceleration in a closed system. Once that bullet leaves you've got an OPEN system, no more pushy.....

al

Al,

This brake can be turned down to match the barrel profile... but then it is not near as good as this diameter is or an even larger diameter ...
thin%20barrel%20matte%20brake.jpg


Jets do work in our atmosphere, at least the last time I flew on one... but they don't work in space... ;)

I guess what I perceive could be explained as a larger area for the gases to drag on... but I like my jet effect theory better... it's easier to explain it to customers... instead of the excess gases blasting straight out the barrel like a jet, they blast out the ports like a jet... the longer ports blast better... :D


.
 
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I have two Harrells muzzle brakes on guns. One is on a 7STW and one is on a 6.5x284...Both work as well as any we have tried. I have shot 300RUM's with the Harrell brake and they seem to work well. They are only $30.00. You can buy 3 of them for what a Vias costs.
 
Al,

This brake can be turned down to match the barrel profile... but then it is not near as good as this diameter is or an even larger diameter ...
thin%20barrel%20matte%20brake.jpg


Jets do work in our atmosphere, at least the last time I flew on one... but they don't work in space... ;)

I guess what I perceive could be explained as a larger area for the gases to drag on... but I like my jet effect theory better... it's easier to explain it to customers... instead of the excess gases blasting straight out the barrel like a jet, they blast out the ports like a jet... the longer ports blast better... :D


.


Hey, whatever works for ya' man!

As long as you don't get any smart customers ;)

You might run into a problem with a Rocket Scientist........


LOL


:D



al
 
Dennis,

Think about all the port holes as little baffles that the gases hit. The thicker the wall of the brake the larger the baffles.

I agree, the thicker the wall of the brake the more effectice the brake is in reducing recoil.
 
Here's a thought experiment.

Imagine the bullet, just as it is about to exit ("uncork") the muzzle, as a valve. What will happen when the valve is opened, and the pressure inside the barrel is released (i.e., the mass of the propellant gases is allowed to accelerate to its maximum velocity)? Will additional recoil be produced, or not? (You might want to consider whether there really is residual pressure when the bullet is at the muzzle -- I think you'll discover that there must be considerable pressure remaining inside the barrel.)

Here's another way to investigate the "rocket effect" (not "jet effect," because the cartridge contains propellant -- fuel+oxidizer, not just fuel like a jet engine).

Go to any of the recoil calculators which can be found on the web. Here's one of them that allows you to compare two loads at once: http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

Now, if all of the recoil in a firearm can be accounted for by the combined mass of propellant and bullet (at the same muzzle velocity and rifle weight), then the calculated recoil should be the same for, say, a 100gr bullet with 30gr of powder and a 95gr bullet with 35gr of powder, since they have the same momentum (mass*velocity). This is what the "no rocket" crowd is contending. (I used 3000fps for the muzzle velocity and 10 pounds for the rifle weight, but the exact numbers don't matter as long as they're the same for both loads.)

When you run the calculator you will see that an added grain of powder produces more recoil than an added grain of bullet weight. The law of conservation of momentum tells you why this is -- it's because the velocity of a grain of powder (gases) is greater than the velocity of the bullet. Of course, this can't be true until the bullet leaves the barrel, allowing the propellant gases to accelerate to their maximum velocity.

The "rocket" phenomenon produced by the accelerating gases as the bullet leaves the muzzle is known as secondary recoil. You don't feel it as a separate event because it only happens a millisecond or so after the primary recoil produced by the momentum of the bullet and propellant before the bullet leaves the muzzle.

This is also why muzzle brakes are more effective (in terms of percent recoil reduction) for cartridges with lots of propellant mass relative to bullet mass (which doesn't describe a .416 Rigby!). The brake can't do anything about the recoil produced by the bullet, because the bullet has to go downrange. But the brake can turn the momentum vector of the propellant gases in some direction other than downrange, and a grain of gases has more momentum than a grain of bullet (once the bullet gets out of the way).

So understanding recoil really is rocket science ...

Toby Bradshaw
baywingdb@comcast.net
 
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