Minimum age for unsupervised hunting/licensing?

D

Don

New member
I was surprised to read that Wa. state has no minimum age limit for hunting licenses.

"Since the accident, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has announced a review of hunting regulations. Under study are closures to hunting on public lands and setting a minimum age for obtaining a hunting license."



"Washington state hunter, 14, fatally shoots a hiker


Pamela Almli, 54, was hiking with a friend on a trail at Sauk Mountain, near Rockport, Wash., when a 14-year-old boy, thinking he was aiming at a black bear, fired a single shot with his .270-caliber rifle. The teen, who was standing 120 feet away from Almli, didn’t use binoculars, only his rifle scope.
The boy fires a single shot at what he thinks is a black bear. Avid hiker Pamela Almli, 54, is hit in the head.

By Stuart Glascock, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

August 14, 2008

SEATTLE -- As she had so often before, Pamela Almli, 54, gathered her hiking gear and headed out with a friend for a day hike in the North Cascades. Familiar with the terrain, she felt at home on the trails.

On that same morning this month, two brothers, ages 14 and 16, set off on a hunting trip. Their grandfather dropped them off at a trailhead on Sauk Mountain near Rockport, Wash., in Skagit County, about 90 miles northeast of Seattle.



Location of hunting accidentIt was opening weekend of the black bear hunting season in Washington state. The boys were licensed hunters from the nearby town of Concrete. State law does not require adult supervision of juvenile hunters.

At about 10 a.m., the 14-year-old, who had taken a hunter safety class when he was 9, saw something he thought was a bear. He didn't use binoculars, only his rifle scope. From about 120 feet away he fired a single shot with his .270-caliber rifle. He thought he was taking down a black bear; instead he struck Almli in the head, killing her as she bent over to place something in her backpack.

Almli, from Oso, an unincorporated area of Snohomish County, had been on a marked hiking trial on federal land. Her friend and fellow hiker was a few steps away on the path.


William Almli, in a brief interview this week, said his wife "loved life and loved the outdoors."

"It should have never happened," he said. "[The hunters] did everything that you don't do. Anybody with common sense knows that you don't do the things that he did."

Hikers and hunters often share the same backwoods trails, but fatal hunting accidents involving nonhunters are rare.

This week, Skagit County prosecutors will charge the 14-year-old with first-degree manslaughter. If convicted, he could face nine months in juvenile detention. His older brother has not been charged.

At the time of the accident, it was foggy. Limited visibility of between 20 feet to 100 feet worsened the situation, said Rosemary Kaholokula, Skagit County chief deputy criminal prosecutor.

Nonetheless, prosecutors contend, the young hunter acted irresponsibly. "It is our belief that the boy was reckless in his actions," Kaholokula said this week, "and that recklessness is based at least in part on failure to abide by hunter safety guidelines."

Since the accident, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has announced a review of hunting regulations. Under study are closures to hunting on public lands and setting a minimum age for obtaining a hunting license."
 
That's a sad case...

40 yards and he could not tell it was a person...??? and with a scope!
 
A lot more hikers are killed or injured by falling down the sides of hills than shot by firearms....so why not ban the hikers instead of banning hunting on public lands????

Hovis
 
Woman was bent over putting something in her pack??????? Did she have a blaze orange hat and vest on? If she was an experienced hiker and knew she was hiking during hunting season, common sense would dictate that she wear the same protective clothing that a hunter would. "I THINK" that's the law in some places.
I can't speak for other people's kids but by the time my sons were 14 or 16, they had spent probably more time in the woods than folks twice their age.
I don't think the fact that the boy did or didn't have bincos enters into it.
 
Sad

There are no excuses that will make this right! The boy did not identify his target and the woman is dead and he will have to live with that, as will her family.

Concho Bill
 
I totally agree with you, Bill. But it could have been avoided on several levels.
 
Rule number 1 - IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET

Orange blaze - are you joking?
The responsibility rests with the shooter.
Also, age has little to do with this incident as similar killings occur yearly as one "hunter" eliminates another hunter, sometimes his buddy.

best, nrb
 
To paraphrase the late great Jack O'Connor when asked how old someone should be before they're to be trusted with a gun, for some it's 8 or 9 years old, and for others it's never. There are hunters, fortunately fewer every year, who shoot at movement or noise and kill another hunter, a cow, or a horse.

I believe that WA requires hunter safety training, which obviously didn't take in this case.
 
hiker hunting......

One nice fall day I was up near the Moffat Tunnel; clear day, beautiful for photography, the time was right, the light was right, the colors were right; I was there to get some shots of a lake. I carefully set up the tripod so I could avoid, and/or mask the orange-vested hunters & RVs out of the finished shot. While doing this, a small herd of Mulies came to within 50-60 feet of me & ambled off. A minute or two later two female hikers appeared, & I stopped them & asked why they were here in the mountains. Appearing somwhat miffed, one answered they were hiking, in a none-of-your-business tone. I asked her then if she knew what time of year it was, & she said: "Fall" as though I was some dummy. I said, "Come here a moment, I want to show you something." I picked up the tripod & moved the rig to a position with a different perspective, lowered the camera to give them an eyelevel height, & focussed it, then told them to look. Each took their turn, & I asked, "Do you see the RVs? Do you see those red specks?" They both answered yes. I said, "Every one of those specks is a hunter, armed with a high-powered rifle; why are you hiking toDAY, on the first day of deer season?" Then I asked the one who had initially addressed me somewhat snottily, "And you, why do YOU have your brown sweater tied around your waist, hanging down your fanny....you DO know the deer are brown, don't you??" Nervously she then took it off & draped it over her arm, & I told her, "No, That's an even more fatal position if you were to be shot, just roll it up tightly, & carry it in your hand back to your car, then leave the area, please." She did as I suggested, then they both wasted NO time in leaving. Now the Colorado agencies had put out NO radio spots, NO TV spots, nothing. Yes, we can all be Monday morning quarterbacks, & like a therapist once said, "You can should all over yourself." BUT....just like the Monday morning quarterbacks, it does no good....the game's still over. Visibility, sound, all the things that "SHOULD" have been done weren't.....BUT had the state, in all its omnipotent wisdom, CLOSED the parks & public lands to anyone withOUT a hunting license, this MAY have been avoided, mightn't it????
 
The issue is always about having the maturity to exercise good judgment and restraint, not shooting skills. Some never get it at any age, but obviously below a certain age it is less likely. We as a collective have to choose an age regardless of the vast differences in maturity. Sometimes lifelong shooters inject their wishes and good memories of early shooting and want their son's or grandson's to have that experience "maybe" at too young an age. With my son's and grandson and granddaughter I would supervise their maturity and decision making until 18. Before that if I want them to shoot I'b better get my butt off the couch and supervise them "closely".
 
nrb said:
Orange blaze - are you joking?
The responsibility rests with the shooter.
Also, age has little to do with this incident as similar killings occur yearly as one "hunter" eliminates another hunter, sometimes his buddy.

best, nrb
Click to expand...

You are right...

There are some real slob hunters who do not have a clue.

I have never been a fan of having to where orange... it kind of conditions the "slob" hunter that if it isn't orange he can shoot.

It is a very plain case of not identifying what you are going to shoot.... like really.. what identifying marks did he see that made it a black bear? It makes us (shooters) all look bad (to the non shooter) ...
 
It doesn't happen down here...

....but I know that many farmers litterally spray paint their livestock up north.

'COW' right on the side of the animal...I think they still get killed?? I don't get it??

pf
<><
 
unsupervised/unlicense

there are literally hundreds of people killed daily in the U.S. by expiermental aircraft, playground equipt, toy's, unsupervised animals,auto's kid's flipping and crashing into trees w/ATV's, exc,exc, ages can range from toddler to infinity. The incident mentioned is tragic as all accidental deaths are, the thing that concerns me most is if one occurs with a firearm, gunowners seem to suffer as if we're somehow responsible,we have a high level of responsibility in regards to firearms safety, if there is only 1 idiot in our rank's that's 1 too many. Let's leave the gunowner bashing to the press/media they'll do enough bashing for both sides. We need to police ourselves and be more responsible individuals the gov't and media have tunnel vision and serve no useful purpose in common everyday endevours of our lives.
 
Everybody seems really concerned about fixing blame. My post was about fixing the problem or how it could have been avoided. I don't think anyone has said it wasn't the kid's fault. What I suggested was that had the woman had on a orange vest and a orange hat she might very well be alive today.
When my wife and I would hunt and camp in WY, I would hunt and she would hike around and take pixs and such. Even tho we were on a private ranch, I had her wear a orange vest and cap in camp and when she was out walking around. Whether or not it was a crutch for a slob hunter or a trespasser or what, I felt it was cheap insurance.

And too, like the deal down in Texas (which has gotten real, real quiet) and Waco, and Ruby Ridge and such, We've only heard what the media wants us to hear so far but already we've got a bunch of folks hanging this kid up by the balls.
 
As a certified Hunter Safety Instructor in the state of WA I'm privy to statistics which show us to have an enviable record regarding gun safety BUT........ this story is tragic and is one that we're already using in our class. A class started last night and the newspaper article about this incident is out on one of our display tables. Incidents like this are hard to recover from.


spedpro is right, accidents happen....

I also agree with Bill Wynne, there are no excuses.



We stress strongly the danger of "scoping", we hammer hard on the subject of identifying your target. Those kids leave the class thinking that if they EVER use their scope to examine something, one of us instructors will pop out of the brush to give them what for! I've actually had them tell me this years later :)



But this accident happened. In the state with the LOWEST accident rate of all of them, it happened. We will work that much harder to ensure that it doesn't happen much. IMO the single biggest factor involved is FAMILIARITY with firearms, treating firearms as tools. Luckily for us this area is still rural enough that firearms are a way of life. This makes our job as instructors easier. As folks become more citified it becomes harder and harder to keep firearms in our lives as normal pieces of equipment. We shooters are the last bastion. Let's keep shooting and bringing others into the fraternity :):)


al
 
Crazy laws

The state of Colorado has it backwards on blaze orange. A few years ago, I.with preference points, got an early season muzzle loader tag. I was required to wear orange, while bowhunters,who were in the woods at the same time were not. Think about it, the law I guess, was to protect me, from I guess, the bowhunters. The bowhunters, on the other hand, who were in much more jeopardy from me than me from them, were not required to wear orange. Explain the common sense in that. Rusty Carr
 
Al,

How do you become a certified Hunter Safety Instructor? I think that several of us might find the time and we might make a difference.

Concho Bill
 
Rusty Carr said:
The state of Colorado has it backwards on blaze orange. A few years ago, I.with preference points, got an early season muzzle loader tag. I was required to wear orange, while bowhunters,who were in the woods at the same time were not. Think about it, the law I guess, was to protect me, from I guess, the bowhunters. The bowhunters, on the other hand, who were in much more jeopardy from me than me from them, were not required to wear orange. Explain the common sense in that. Rusty Carr
Click to expand...

Rusty, if it hasn't changed, it's the same way in Georgia. I must admit I haven't kept up with it since I hunt on my own land and don't worry about it.
 
Saftey Instructors

If you want to be a FSI contact your state Game an Fish Dept.. Minnesota has Instructor classes thoughout the year in lots of locations thoughout the state. Training classes for Instructors are usually posted on the GF or DNR web sights for the individual states. State approved Instructor certs. are valid in the US. Canada P.R. ( last I was told). As for the Incedent posted, in Minnesota while FIREARMS DEER season is in progress if you are AFIELD hunting or not you must wear an Article of Blaze Orange . I would classify this as a TRAGEDY not an ACCIDENT for both parties. Roger T MN FSI
 
In a recreational area that I hunt, there are equine (horse) riders sharing the same woods, on horse trails. Riders are encouraged to wear blaze orange after Sept 15, the start of small game season. Some riders have even been known to put blaze orange on their horses, to help prevent a mishap. The horses generally make alot of noise, usually you hear them coming. I will usually assume a non threatening like position when they pass, as some of them are quite surprised to see a hunter with a gun, and some become quite concerned after they do. If we converse, I will tell them that it actually might be risky for them to use the trails after season opens ( shotguns and rifles are allowed). As the area is very up and down hilly, a mishap could definitely be possible. As a side note, one day a number of years ago, I had bullets whizzing by me, tumbling, I could tell by the sound they were tumbling, I had to take rufuge behind a tree for a couple minutes. I never did know where those bullets were coming from.
 
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