Mauser 98 Boltface Safety Question

K

KC57

Member
Not an action usually referred to on a benchrest website . . .

I have the remnants of an old 1000 yard rifle that was based on a large ring Mauser 98 action and chambered in 6.5x300 Weatherby Magnum (called a 6.5x300 Weatherby Wright-Hoyer back in the late 60's). This action is now epoxy and pillar bedded into a modern laminated varmint stock, and has a good Timney trigger, but the barrel is completely shot out and has been removed. I have no desire to rebarrel in this OMG cartridge, or even to invest in a new barrel blank and chambering, but would like to salvage some value from these components, and perhaps build a half decent rifle.

Midway has a SS Green Mountain varmint weight barrel pre-threaded for this action and short chambered in .308Win. for $155. Reamer rental is ~$50 with Go/NoGo gauges. I'm ready to try this, but noticed that all Mauser action boltfaces that I can find on Google appear to have the boltface recessed by a shoulder, whereas the boltface on the action I have appears to have been machined flat (perhaps due to the belted magnum case?).

Long story, simple question: Is it safe to rebarrel the action/boltface in a non-belted cartridge (.308Win) with this flat boltface or is there some concern? It is a Belgian FN action, and appears to be of relatively high quality.
Thanks.
 
KC57
I am sure others will chime in. I have been lurking here for many years but never have joined. But I just recently went through re-barreling a Turk Mauser and converted to 450 bushmaster. I ran across a couple of things that may help.
I found a guy here in Texas, He mods Mauser bolts and I believe he has some on hand. His web site is Finchers corner. I had him bend and polish my bolt. 2nd Another small Texas company in Houston area that sells barrels chambered and threaded for about $130.00 last I checked . They are like a savage and have nuts to lock it down. Very easy to install. The name is Rhineland Arms. I remember they had a 308 offering for the Mauser. I have used their products before with 2 other old military rifle conversions. 1 was a old Enfield rifle I converted to 45 acp, and another was a Mauser rifle I converted to 45 win mag.
Our bushmaster shoots well. It was also a big learning experience to further our skills..
Good luck, God Bless and Happy New Year.
Phil Keil
 
I am sure others will chime in. I have been lurking here for many years but never have joined. But I just recently went through re-barreling a Turk Mauser and converted to 450 bushmaster. I ran across a couple of things that may help.
I found a guy here in Texas, He mods Mauser bolts and I believe he has some on hand. His web site is Finchers corner. I had him bend and polish my bolt. 2nd Another small Texas company in Houston area that sells barrels chambered and threaded for about $130.00 last I checked . They are like a savage and have nuts to lock it down. Very easy to install. The name is Rhineland Arms. I remember they had a 308 offering for the Mauser. I have used their products before with 2 other old military rifle conversions. 1 was a old Enfield rifle I converted to 45 acp, and another was a Mauser rifle I converted to 45 win mag.
Our bushmaster shoots well. It was also a big learning experience to further our skills..
Good luck, God Bless and Happy New Year.
Phil Keil
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you go with the 308, you will flat need a new bolt. The old bolt has been modified to fit the WBY case head, You may have to consider the action feed rails, however it may have been used as a single shot and nothing done to the feed rails. You should be able to source a new bolt and have it fitted without too much trouble. Don't go the cheap Midway route!
 
KC57 said:
Not an action usually referred to on a benchrest website . . .

I have the remnants of an old 1000 yard rifle that was based on a large ring Mauser 98 action and chambered in 6.5x300 Weatherby Magnum (called a 6.5x300 Weatherby Wright-Hoyer back in the late 60's). This action is now epoxy and pillar bedded into a modern laminated varmint stock, and has a good Timney trigger, but the barrel is completely shot out and has been removed. I have no desire to rebarrel in this OMG cartridge, or even to invest in a new barrel blank and chambering, but would like to salvage some value from these components, and perhaps build a half decent rifle.

Midway has a SS Green Mountain varmint weight barrel pre-threaded for this action and short chambered in .308Win. for $155. Reamer rental is ~$50 with Go/NoGo gauges. I'm ready to try this, but noticed that all Mauser action boltfaces that I can find on Google appear to have the boltface recessed by a shoulder, whereas the boltface on the action I have appears to have been machined flat (perhaps due to the belted magnum case?).

Long story, simple question: Is it safe to rebarrel the action/boltface in a non-belted cartridge (.308Win) with this flat boltface or is there some concern? It is a Belgian FN action, and appears to be of relatively high quality.
Thanks.
Click to expand...


IMO (and from your description) it's safe to say that your boltface has been machined off flush for the reason you've stated....


KC57 said:
........................appear to have the boltface recessed by a shoulder, whereas the boltface on the action I have appears to have been machined flat (perhaps due to the belted magnum case?). .......................

.
Click to expand...


I'm no expert on Mausers but do have a lot of wildcatting experience with modern firearms. I'd like to touch on the subject of boltface sizes. And case designs.

Most modern cartridges can be differentiated by being "rimmed" or "rimless" with most rimmed cases using a flat-faced cartridge retention system (often a single-shot or levergun) and most rimless rounds being set into the boltface, commonly bolt actioned guns....like the Mauser. Some common ones on the popular bolt-actioned firearms front are;

- "223 or AR-15" size, commonly called ".378 size" which accepts cartridges with a casehead around .378" diameter.
-".473 or 308" size, for cases of that diameter like 308 based and 30-06 based cartridges, casehead around .473".
-"Magnum" which is used for 95% of all "magnums" belted or otherwise, caseheads in the .532 range.....and
-gaining in popularity is the "338 Lapua" sized or .587 boltface.
-Here on this (Bench Rest) board the single most popular bf amongst competitive 100/200yd Group shooters will be the "PPC Bolt Face" set up for the extremely niche market catering to Extreme Accuracy, a market in which the 6PPC ( casehead diameter nominally .447) is the undisputed King Of The World.

But YOUR gun.....here's my opinion. Having been milled off flat to accept the "Magnum" cartridges, maybe you could find a useful and common magnum, I'll suggest 300WSM which is basically a short-action 30-06. A very useful round, especially if handloaded.

Or, again My Opinion, you should buy another bolt, but here thee wickette get's somewhat stickee..... Mausers are generally metric. Ain't NO "473 bf" Mausers.... They're all "a metric that works for an American brand" in some way or another, or they're limited runs of various military contracts (308 or "NATO" examples could be "Isreali" or some "Chilean", "Norwegian" and "Spanish" versions are floating about) or they've been more extensively mod'd than you probably would want to go. For instance the forementioned 450 Bushmaster and 45 Win Mag use entirely different bf sizes......the Bushmaster is a boutique cartridge handmade to fit the .223bf whereas the 45 Win Mag is a pistol round, it don't match NUTTIN' rifle, at .480 it's too big for some of the 308 bolt faces out there and too small to extract reliably in some Magnum setups...

And on and on andonandon....basically you pick a cartridge (like 308) and then you go shopping bolts on ebay and running numbers to see "does it fit my gun???"

So HERE'S what I'd do :) :)

(((I know, ya' din't ask LOL, Oh Well....)))

I'd build a useful something-or-other from it without spending more money......personally I'd make subsonic 45 or 50cal out of it. Should work like a dream with the action as-is......Start by whacking off 338Lapua cases and squinching them down just a liddle to take the 45-50cal bullets. Or something with the 300 magnum case if need be, if the rails are mod'd. Cut 'em back, blow 'em out, make a wildcat or find a pistol round that works....Make something FUN and COMFORTABLE to shoot...

Or see if a rimmed case will cycle, heck a 30-30 will match a 308 in a bolt action....
 
And BTW I fergot to mention.... Butch has 98 Mauser(s) commission-built that are worth as much as a two-bedroom home in many states.....

And Kobe does this for a living.....

So yes, LISSEN TO KOBE :) (and Butch) they both know more about Mausers than they may let on....

And as an aside I think you can discount any cases with casehead smaller than 308 as far as "buying a bolt." I don't know of any Mauser rifles that came with small bf like 223, they will be mod-only IME.
 
Two-Bedroom Home

Thanks to everyone who has responded to date. I’m learning. My original goal was to, with a minimum $ investment, put together a “half decent” rifle using/based on the existing components. Still my goal here.

Upon closer examination the boltface is not completely flat, but does have a slight partial circumference “shroud” (?terminology?). I’ll try to attach an image.

I understand than going from a .531” rim diameter to something smaller would likely require purchase and fitting of a new extractor, but these can be had for $20-$35. The Midway/Green Mountain .308WIN barrel is only $155. Reamer rental to hand ream the short chamber ~$50. I have .308 dies and cases. This is ~$250 to rebuild this rifle into a popular cartridge, although not exactly a precision or varminting one.

Some measurements (rough with caliper):
- distance/depth of boltface to action shoulder ~.115” (again, I’m not sure of terminology)
- depth of cut in existing barrel to accommodate Weatherby belt ~.104”
- added together ~.219”, which is approximately the published length of
the Weatherby case from belt to rim base, so above measurements are likely close

Given the ~.115” distance/depth from the Mauser action “shoulder” to the boltface, and the .308WIN case dimensions of rim+ extractor groove = .109” and rim+extractor groove+angled portion of case head = .152”, would a new bolt be required for .308 chambering? Could not the/a barrel be chambered in .308 (or 6BR) so that the headspace is appropriate? What am I missing?

Plan B: I have a 6mm 14T SS HV barrel blank. Can’t remember where it’s from, but it’s likely a good barrel, for which I have no use at present. Send this and the action out to a competent gunsmith with Mauser experience to have it chambered in 6BR, no turn neck, throated for 58-70gr. bullets. This might require purchase and fitting of a new bolt, extractor, and chambering cost, but this barrel is a sunk cost already, like the action, trigger and stock.

I Googled Jim Kobe and have looked at the absolutely gorgeous rifles he has produced. Wow! But these are more “two-bedroom home” rifles compared to my “sandwich in a baggie” project. Although I want a safe, functional build, I don’t think the existing components are worthy of a significant investment greater than Plan B (cost???), which a wildcat or exotic chambering would require. I’d also like to keep it based on a no neck-turn, commercially available case to retain possible sale at a later date.

Further thoughts/comments appreciated. Thanks.
 
Jim Kobe is at the Dallas Safari Club Convention in Dallas. He will be home in a day or 2. Have him chamber a 6BR for you if you have that barrel in your hand. Used Mauser bolts are very cheap.
 
alinwa said:
......Start by whacking off 338Lapua cases and squinching them down just a liddle to take the 45-50cal bullets.
Click to expand...

Apparently economy is not one of your concerns! I think I'd need a pretty spectacular reason to use .338LM as a parent case...

GsT
 
GeneT said:
Apparently economy is not one of your concerns! I think I'd need a pretty spectacular reason to use .338LM as a parent case...

GsT
Click to expand...

Economy is ALWAYS my concern....... and Lapua cases are always the cheapest option in my world, unless they don't make the case (WSM for instance) in which case I'll take the best alternative (in this case, Winchester)

In the case of making a baby 50, case options are severiously limited as most cases aren't even 50cal to begin with.... I have built them using Jeffery, RUM/WSM, Win and Weather belted magnums.....and 338 Lapua

And rimmed cases, but they're too awful much work for me. I admire Michael's work and will someday try master the rimmed case but for now..... I gotta'NUFF on me' plate.

I've considered many other options but of them all the 338LM cases are FAR the "cheapest"
 
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