M1A @ 1000 yds?

R

RandyG

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Would the Springfield M1A in .308 group well @ 1000 yards? I was thinking of trying mine at a local match but did not want to make a fool of myself. I believe I can load the Berger 175 VLT moly to around 2650 fps which should keep it from going subsonic at 1K. Any suggestions/advice would be apreciated.

Thanks,
RG
 
Nobody is going to laugh if you go give it a try. You know going in it's not the ideal rifle. So what. It's what you've got, give it a shot. My first try at 1K was a 220 swift with 55gr bullets. No it didn't make it but it was fun. Your 308 will be a lot better than that was.

Prepare yourself for it to not work. Also, that velocity is seriously short of what it will take to make any sort of "group". Without spending money for match fees, why not go to a range and try after a match in practice if you're apprehensive about it.

My personal opinion is, I'd be surprised to see you put all shots on a 1K target with those velocity/bullet specs. It's just slightly short of enough gun. Then too, it might do it.

jmho.
 
4mesh knows a lot more about this than I do but here goes ;)

It is my understanding that the M1A has been used for 1000yd competition for years BUT, not for the sort of competition normally discussed here. I've read about and known several folks who've competed in different Service Rifle disciplines with these guns at 1000yds and am led to believe that "good" groups for this platform are 14"-20" and that they're achieved via all sorts of accurizing tricks. A quick web search turned up this discussion re shooting them at Camp Perry. http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50663&#299466


That said, if you turn up at a NBRSA or IBS match with a semi-auto you may be refused.... 4mesh??

A "local match" could be anything. I recently went to a "local 600yd match" with a fairly accurate rifle and proceeded to get my clock cleaned by some very serious shooters :) At this level an M1A would have zero chance of winning but it could still be fun provided you can actually get on paper. At a match a week ago there was a guy belly shooting alongside the BR match and he stayed on paper without any rests or anything. He just wrapped up in his gear and shooted whilst we were all bagged up with heavy guns and exotic rests.........This was impressive to me. As 4mesh said, go prepared to fall short and have some fun. I'll venture a guess that your rifle is capable of 20" groups at 1000yds whereas there are factory bolt actions which will hold at 10"-12" and a customized bolt will be capable of 3" accuracy. How does your rifle group at 100yds? Is it a tricked out gun? If it groups 1moa @100 and if you go to a match and maintain 10" then you've done extremely well!

al
 
Thanks for the input gentlemen. It pretty much falls in line with what I was expecting. My M1A is box stock but came as what Springfield terms "loaded" meaning mostly national match hardware. I have no doubt that it will shoot sub 0.5" MOA as I have already done that and I've barely scratched the surface in my reloading attempts so far. The local range here only goes out to 250 but I was getting some nice groups at just over an inch. There is a range up in Harris MN I believe that shoots 1K and I thought it sounded like fun. I'm starting off small this summer in that I will shooting the sporter class with my Cooper in IR50/50. If this becomes as addictive as I expect it to be I know I'm going to want to try the 1K stuff, just for fun.

Thanks again and take care,
RG
 
There is a lot of information on shooting the M1A at distance on nationalmatch-us.com and the sister site long- range.com. The service rifle/palma targets are larger than F-class or benchrest targets. In the prone matches diffrent shooters shoot at diffrent targets. Generally targets are pulled and marked after each shot so you can see in a spotting scope where your shots are going.
Your bullet and speed seem about right for the rifle.
 
A semi-automatic is not legal in most BR sanctioning's rule books.
But they are in NRA High Power and other similar disciplines.

Happy Shooting
Donovan Moran
 
RG

If you can get an honest 2650 with the Berger 175 VLD, it will be border line trans-sonic at 1000 yards. If you have the proper twist it will be fairly accurate also.

I know, I've done it in a Rem700 with a 26" barrel. Altitude may be a factor but I don't see why it would not work all the way down to sea level.

Mine was still at 1300fps at 1K. But be prepared for a LOT of adjustment of your sights. It's going to take about 40 MOA. You'll also have about 90" of wind (10 mph crosswind).

All in all, it won't be competitive against the real Benchrest rifles but you'll get a good education.

Good Luck

Ray
 
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Thanks for the links holl, I'll check them out.

Thanks for the rule notification dmoran65. Makes sense. The last thing I would want is an empty case flying in front of my scope just as I was getting ready to set one off.

I'll probably try some service rifle matches around here first and see how they go. I know of a couple that are closer than the 1K range and with the price of gas these days, that's a good thing.

Thanks again all,
RG
 
alinwa said:
4That said, if you turn up at a NBRSA or IBS match with a semi-auto you may be refused.... 4mesh??
Click to expand...
I see Donovan mentioning below that it's not legal to fire a semi auto, however at least in PA rules, you may use one, it just needs loaded single shot. Also, you might want to ask range officials about what sort of bolt-out procedure (flag in the rifle, etc) that you'd need to satisfy their range rules.

I know there's been AR-15's shot at our range so it's not illegal to do so here anyhow. I'd almost bet in the IBS it would be ok as well but I'd ask someone more in the know on their rules for that.
 
I don't know about the BR, but at almost any highpower/service rifle match I've been to they will let you shoot any safe rifle/ammo you happen to have. Call the RO before the match and talk to him. They will help you out with loaner equipment, advice, etc . Anything you learn about reading wind or mirage at the 600 yd stage will help at longer range.
 
I'll get a hold of someone in charge at Harris and see what's up. Hopefully there are one or two disciplines that I could use a scoped M1A in at long range. I was shying away from the service rifle game as it would require more of an investment (coat, mat, glove, etc.) and my eye sight is not what it used to be. It can be trying to focus on the rear sight, front sight and long range target at the same time. Who knows though, maybe after trying a sevice match or two I might surprise myself. It might be a good place to start off at also (instead of jumping head first into the 1K stuff).

Thanks again all and happy shootin,
RG
 
RandyG said:
Would the Springfield M1A in .308 group well @ 1000 yards? I was thinking of trying mine at a local match but did not want to make a fool of myself. I believe I can load the Berger 175 VLT moly to around 2650 fps which should keep it from going subsonic at 1K. Any suggestions/advice would be apreciated.

Thanks,
RG
Click to expand...

Randy , be careful not to load to hot or you'll bend your operating rod. I did just that with mine.I had a NM barrel put on it ,a NM stock ,NM trigger. It would hold 1/4" groups at 100 with 175 Berger VLD's. After I replaced the op rod I bought an adjustable gas plug and set it to just function the bolt being sure it opened and ejected the spent round. The excess gas is sent out the gas plug. I never shot it past 500 meters so I'm not sure what you can expect at 1000. It did quite well at 500 though , 2" was my best group. That's using a scope too. Sold it and went into bench rest shooting. Have fun and be careful. You can find the adjustable gas plug on e-bay if you're lucky.
 
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