Looking for feedback. Odd behavior, different style - or newbie mistakes?

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Posted this on a couple of various firearms forums I belong to and thought this place would be a great area to get feedback on. I've gotten a lot of mixed answers on the issue (user error vs equipment - or a combo of both).

More than one person has referred to this as 'snap shooting' and some people are just inherently better at this method than the classic hold over. The more feedback the better - I've got a note book going of the various ideas and suggestions.


Maybe there is a term for this kind of shooting - maybe its just a weird quirk isolated to myself. Lack of a description keeps me from googling an answer, so I figure I would ask here.

We shall take todays range trip as the example.

Weapon: LR-308 (Bi-pod, Magpul PRS)
Distance: 150 Yards
Target: Orange Clays Discs
Position: Sitting on a stool behind weapon and slightly to the left (I am right handed). Left elbow is down on the table and the webbing between left thumb and pointer finger used as method of vertical adjustment. (cupping the rear bottom corner of the stock)

If I literally put my cross hairs on target and hold for a moment - I seem to hit 1 out of 3 times. Either my breathing or some other obvious flaw sends the shot slightly out of whack.

However what I like to do a lot is aim, shoot, aim, shoot, aim shoot - without breaking. What I mean is while the cross hairs are in motion as soon as they hit center target, trigger, clay explodes, let trigger out, move to next target.

Now think of all this as one fluid motion.

So I says to myself, "Ok guy - lets have a little test".

I set up 30 (yes 30!) orange clays at 150 yards.

What did I score? 30 out of 30 rounds (1 and 1/2 mag) - in about 75 seconds.

I don't get it. Is this a type of shooting that is known about or has a description?

If I do the "sniper thing" and just hold on target, its a crapshoot!
Click to expand...
 
if you cannot hit a clay sized target at 150 yds from the bench in "still", you need to look closely at your bench technique. something is wrong there. if you can hit the clay at 150 without settling down...then like i said go look at your actual bench technique. maybe have someone watch you, see if they see something different.
and no thats not the "sniper thing" because you are missing.

mike in co
 
I think Mike's on the right track. What do you do to the gun when you settle in...pull it in to your shoulder tighter, relax your grip on the stock, move the trigger differently, etc? It would be interesting to try it on paper to see if your group is in a different spot.

Jim
 
Stock firmly in the shoulder joint.

Stock supported by off hand webbing, left elbow down.

Rifle is equipped with a pistol grip that has a palm rest, so I try and relax and let it rest there. Use the center pad of right pointer finger for the trigger.

When lining up on the shot I am exhaling slowly - then once I lock on to what I want to shoot I hold my breath for about 2 seconds and go from there. Begin squeezing on trigger till I feel the slack stop and its at its breaking point, take a final second and then continue.

If I hold to long I begin to get eye fatigue and blurred vision - if this happens I stop, wait a minute to recoup and start over.

I have no doubt in my mind I am doing something basic wrong. My mission is just to simply find out what it is and I don't know of any local teachers.

I think the stool I use may be a bit to high as I am having to hunch over slightly to get proper cheek weld and been thinking of getting a pair of one of those shooting glasses with the non-dominant eye covered to shoot both eyes open.
 
Try shooting two separate 5 shot groups on two separate paper targets using each method. That should show some interesting results.
 
This is a good idea - then I can take a picture and have something visual to show online for help in corrections. :)
 
Al is right and take Dennis' suggestion.
Try having someone video you while you do it.
Review the video while it is still fresh in your mind.
Off the top it sounds like flinch and or breathing.
Flinch is not near as noticeable in some type of fast firing but when you are holding and taking time you can flinch in anticipation.
Try making a clip with half dummy rounds that look just like the real thing and half normal live rounds.
Load the mag, settle in at the bench sight pay attention and pull the trigger. See if you notice anything.
 
You didn't mention if you were using a scope, I assume you are. Have you got it mounted at the right height so you are not hazing the stock with your cheek making it shoot high and left or pulling into your cheek making it shoot to the right.
 
If I understand how you're supporting the butt end of the stock you might be relaxing your hand as you fire. That would be the same as a bag squeezer loosening their grip on the bag as they touch off a shot, something I discovered I was doing and which totally screws things up.

Dennis' suggestion makes a lot of sense to try, and a video taken from the left side of the bench might offer a hint too. The faster the video camera is (frames/seond) the better. Seeing slight movements with a slow camera isn't usually possible due to our lousy eye refresh rate (once every 0.2 sec for a 5 frame per second camera might not allow the possible error to be seen although it'll look like smooth movement on a screen.
 
Maybe this will help - this was a slightly different rifle I was firing last year.

Kind of give you an idea of my shooting position - only difference is I now sit to the rear of the bench instead of the side.

s5006486.jpg
 
I would guess that when you pause, and miss, that your trigger pull is the product of a slight flinch, and that because you are more occupied with the faster technique that you may not flinch. On the slow shots, take a little longer and squeeze the trigger. If you are pulsing the trigger as if to say to your self I want to fire now, this can degrade accuracy, especially with heavier triggers. You should slowly add pressure until the rifle discharges, but you should not know exactly when this is going to happen. Let it surprise you. Also, what's with the glove? I would think that it would give you less feel. As far as aiming fatigue goes, has anyone showed you how to focus the eyepiece of your scope? Most do not know how to do this properly. How did you focus yours?
Boyd
 
Summers in GA get muggy and hot.

Hands get real sweaty - not wearing them for any other reason.

What do you think of my positioning? Does it look OK?
 
Just and observation and personal experience, I notice the can of Monster on the bench and it can (from personal experience) give you monster misses or in my case a monster size group.
It can even if you dont notice give you the jitters (shakes) ever so slightly where under normal circumstances is not even noticeable but when you sit down behind a gun.... well.
FWIW
 
Yea I don't drink those on range day anymore.

One of the first things back then I stopped! lol
 
You know? In all my years of shooting I've never worn a cool glove.

Might just should get me one of those eh ;)

lol

al
 
You're a bit young to not be wearing those glasses....they are right there...in arm's reach.
 
the scope on the rifle in the pic is mounted too far back. the back end of the scope should be somewhere near the end of the reciever. look at the rifle laying on the bench. this means you are way too far back on the gun and cannot build a solid cheek weld in any position. the scope is also too high. one does need the scope to be up off the gun or you have to bend your head down to get on the stock, so up is good, but that looks too high.
i got no use for that glove, but it does appear to be a partial glove..the finger tips are not covered..so probably not the issue.

mike in co
 
Let me clarify since this picture is about a year old.

- I now make sure my scopes are mounted forward far enough for proper eye relief (I actually use a 1 piece scope mount with forward cant)
- I use lower mounts now - when I had bought that scope last year I was warned to get extra high rings as when I put the quad raid on it left enough of a gap to run a piece of paper under
- Gloves mainly for sweaty hands (GA summers = muggy and nasty) I have since moved to gloves where the pointer and middle finger are cut off at the knuckle.
- Sometimes I wear glasses, sometimes I don't (once again relating to muggy nasty atmosphere) Yea Yea I know. :)

Let me work on getting you a pic of my newest setup and maybe that will clear up a few things that are not represented in this older picture.

Is my off hand elbow/hand/arm position good? I still shoot with that position overall and use the webbing of the off hand for my veritical adjustments. Does it look OK? Anything to suggest for off hand?
 
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Just a thought.

You might want to see if your scope is mounted at the right height. By that I mean, do you have to hold your head up to see a clear picture in the scope? If so, then you may be changing head position shot to shot.

My my game, LR Prone, you want the wt. of your head to be on the stock and your eye aligned behind the sight. Irons or scope, it doesn't matter, same principle applies.

Just my .02.

Bob
 
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