Looking for a gunsmith to rebarrel a BAR. Is it next to impossible?

[VaniB]

Anybody know a gunsmith who might be interested in rebarreling a Browning BAR in 7mmMag or 7WSM?
I'm looking for something that will provide the best accuracy possible with a slightly longer and heavier barrel. The intention is to have a sem-auto sport rifle that will double for long range informal target shooting too.

The only mention of gunsmithing for the BAR I could find on the internet was MIDWEST GUNWORKS, who claims to have former Browning gunsmiths employed their. But, they make no mention of replacing barrels.

 

[Old Gunner]

I had thought the Browning BAR Sporting rifles were available in 7mm Magnum, a cousin owned one in .338 Magnum if I remember correctly.
I remember some teased him about too much gun when he shot a 90 pound Whitetail and blew its intact heart out the otherside of its chest.

 

[VaniB]

Nobody in the gunsmith forum has a clue about replacing the barrel on this popular rifle?

I guess this is what happens when a classic American Gun Company like Browning has had it's entire firearms line produced in Belgium, Japan, Portugal and everywhere else for so long. It's now just a foreign gun with some dead american guys name. Pretty sad.

 

[bea175]

I read somewhere about a smith barreling a BAR to 458 WM but can't remember right off which magazine this was in. If you could find a Smith to do this work it would be expensive because he would have market. Your best bet is to buy a Browning ST

 

[Big Al]

If I wanted the work done I would call one of the leading barrel makers that send customers rifles out to have barreling work done. My first call would be to Pac-Nor in Oregon. I would try by calling Shilen in Texas.


http://www.shilen.com/


http://www.pac-nor.com/

 

[VaniB]

Hmmm....while I've been searching for a gunsmith for me to send the rifle and barrel blank to, I didn't think of asking around at the barrel makers themselves.

Good idea. Thanks. Maybe one is bound to know.

 

[Don]

Nobody in the gunsmith forum has a clue about replacing the barrel on this popular rifle?

I guess this is what happens when a classic American Gun Company like Browning has had it's entire firearms line produced in Belgium, Japan, Portugal and everywhere else for so long. It's now just a foreign gun with some dead american guys name. Pretty sad.

Replacing a barrel with a drop-in of a differing caliber is no problem, you could probably do it yourself.

The problem is going to a heavier/larger diameter custom barrel for increased accuracy. The factory BAR rifles were designed for hunting applications and hunting accuracy with little/no thought for accuracy enhancement or flexibility in design for after market tweeking. In fact, since the BAR's are contract mfg'd rifles they were designed to be very difficult to reproduce and customize by after market vendors, this is one method that the producer uses to keep this particular rifle proprietary within design/cost/profit constraints.

Take a close look at how your gas block, its size, how it is brazed to the barrel, and how all the other pieces mate to the gas block. If any one dimension is changed to the gas block, like thinning the verticle height in order to accomodate a thicker barrel, like you are proposing, then the whole geometry of the system has to be changed and altered to accomodate a thicker barrel.

The BAR is not like a AR-15, with its infinite flexability due to its gas tube operating system.

This is the reason that you are having a hard time finding a gunsmith that specializes in BAR accuracy enhancement. This rifle was basically not designed for BR accuracy from its inception. Kind of like a Ruger mini-14 or and AK-47, you are not going to find alot of BR accuracy enhancing gunsmiths for those rifles either, since those rifles were not initially designed for accuracy enhancement and are more trouble than it is worth for most to mess with to get the needed accuracy................Don

 

[VaniB]

Don, a couple of barrel makers recommended the names of two highly skilled gunsmiths willing to install a new barrel. One smith, Dennis Olson, is experienced with working on the BAR, and the other smith admitted that while he has never done a BAR before, he is willing to learn on the job. Where this admission of lack of experience would have ordinarilly scared me off with other smiths, I was impressed by this mans show of confidence and was inclined to go with him. (you suppose the name "Greg Tannel" makes the difference ? ) But I also haven't spoken on the phone directly to either of these gentlemen yet, so neither realizes that I wish to install a heavier barrel, or that I seek greatly improved accuracy. I was getting ready to contact them about it and get more serious about the project, but I checked back here first to find your warning.

After what you just posted here, I think I'll DROP THE WHOLE IDEA. I researched further to try to understand what you were describing, and now I see the mechanical challenges of the inherent design that you were trying to describe.

I think after 6 months and $2,000 of finding a BAR donor to tear apart, then having a custom reamer and barrel gunsmithed into my "dream custom BAR" , I'm going to more likely end up being very disappointed with a rifle of mediocre accuracy. While I'd settle for fairly consistant say 5 shot 5/8" groups, I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up with 1" or so groups. (some rifles are reported to do that right out of the box anyway.... I don't need to spend another $1,000 - $1,300 to acomplish the same thing)

BTW, did you ever get your crazy .75" MOA x 4" MOA accuracy problems corrected in your 308 BAR? Asa Yam was right when he jokingly suggested to you that you might just forget about it and get you a DPMS Panther in 308 cal. If I could find the 7WSM or 7mmMag in an AR platform, I'd have done that and foregone all the BAR investigation.

Thanks for the valuable input. You very well might have saved me a lot of money and needless time and trouble.

 

[Don]

Don, a couple of barrel makers recommended the names of two highly skilled gunsmiths willing to install a new barrel. One smith, Dennis Olson, is experienced with working on the BAR, and the other smith admitted that while he has never done a BAR before, he is willing to learn on the job. Where this admission of lack of experience would have ordinarilly scared me off with other smiths, I was impressed by this mans show of confidence and was inclined to go with him. (you suppose the name "Greg Tannel" makes the difference ? ) But I also haven't spoken on the phone directly to either of these gentlemen yet, so neither realizes that I wish to install a heavier barrel, or that I seek greatly improved accuracy. I was getting ready to contact them about it and get more serious about the project, but I checked back here first to find your warning.

After what you just posted here, I think I'll DROP THE WHOLE IDEA. I researched further to try to understand what you were describing, and now I see the mechanical challenges of the inherent design that you were trying to describe.

I think after 6 months and $2,000 of finding a BAR donor to tear apart, then having a custom reamer and barrel gunsmithed into my "dream custom BAR" , I'm going to more likely end up being very disappointed with a rifle of mediocre accuracy. While I'd settle for fairly consistant say 5 shot 5/8" groups, I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up with 1" or so groups. (some rifles are reported to do that right out of the box anyway.... I don't need to spend another $1,000 - $1,300 to acomplish the same thing)

BTW, did you ever get your crazy .75" MOA x 4" MOA accuracy problems corrected in your 308 BAR? Asa Yam was right when he jokingly suggested to you that you might just forget about it and get you a DPMS Panther in 308 cal. If I could find the 7WSM or 7mmMag in an AR platform, I'd have done that and foregone all the BAR investigation.

Thanks for the valuable input. You very well might have saved me a lot of money and needless time and trouble.

NO, no, no, dont stop now!

I was only hoping to provide an explanation as to why it might be a bit more difficult to find a BAR BR accuracy specialist.

In finding Dennis Olson, if he has already worked out all the bugs and alterations to make a BAR accurate, then you are well on your way to getting what you are looking for.

As for Greg Tannel, I cant think of anyone more qualified to attempt to develope the alterations to make the BAR shoot. It might be a very interesting ride and fun to partner in a project with Greg and the BAR. I am sure if he decided to take on the project he would be doing it with future business in mind.

To be truthfull, I would have thought there would have been more accuracy gunsmiths out there working on Browning BAR's and Remingtons, when the assault weapons ban was implemented. That was one of the primary reasons for me picking up the Browning several years ago, with a semi-auto accuracy project in mind. Unfortunately, I am one of those types that is not able to see inherent accuracy limitations until I get a rifle in my hand and study the mechanisms operations. Wish I could look at a parts illustration and see where the flaws might be, guess I have a limited imagination.

And no, I was not able to get the .308 BAR to shoot consistently.

I am hoping you will be able to come up with something that I was not able to...............Don

 

[Old Gunner]

Nobody in the gunsmith forum has a clue about replacing the barrel on this popular rifle?

I guess this is what happens when a classic American Gun Company like Browning has had it's entire firearms line produced in Belgium, Japan, Portugal and everywhere else for so long. It's now just a foreign gun with some dead american guys name. Pretty sad.

Browning only went into the mass production manufacturing end of the gun business for himself after moving to Belgium, mainly because his autoloading shotgun designs weren't picked up by American Manufacturers who'd profited so much from his earlier Lever action designs.
Till then he was content to invent rather than manufacture.
Basically Brownings most inovative autoloaders came from his work in Europe, and much of the Browning line of firearms was designed or improved on by his European engineers at Fabrique Nationale like Dieudonné Saive, who finished out Browning's High Power/P-35 pistol design and created the SAFN and FN FAL rifles.

While Colt Automatic Pistols and Winchester Lever Action rifles can be considered distinctively American Browning designs, Browning manufactured firearms are not.
The Army's BAR of WW1 and WW2 , Korea, etc,for example is considered a distinctively American military firearm but in fact the BAR was used by quite a few other Nations as well, either manufactured by Browning, License built, or just plain ripped off, same goes for the Browning Machineguns.

The Browning Company itself was not even formed till after John M Browning's death and served only to market those designs of his which were manufactured by others.

The Browning name generates the feel of an all American gun, but fact is Browning found Europe to be his personal Greener Pasture.

FN created its reputation by manufacturing Browning designs, and the Browning company got its rep by marketing FN products. Now FN owns Browning.

 

[Clark]

I have a two BARs in 300WM and one in 338WM.
Those rifles are 2 moa rifles.

I have made a gas regulator from scratch, but have not rebarrelled one yet.

I blew up an old Ruger 44 mag with lead fouling.
Randy Ketchum put a Marlin 444 barrel on the Ruger [the front half of a 444 chamber is just like a 44 mag].
He TIG welded on a gas block he made from scratch.
It is extremely accurate now, but long and heavy.

I suppose I should grow up and put a Lothar Walther 1300 contour 54 ounce 26" 7mm barrel on a BAR chambered in 7mmRemMag... maybe in 2010.

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/CTGY/browning-gun-parts
They sell BAR parts, and if they don't work on them, they know someone who does.

 

[VaniB]

I have a two BARs in 300WM and one in 338WM.
Those rifles are 2 moa rifles.

I have made a gas regulator from scratch, but have not rebarrelled one yet.

I blew up an old Ruger 44 mag with lead fouling.
Randy Ketchum put a Marlin 444 barrel on the Ruger [the front half of a 444 chamber is just like a 44 mag].
He TIG welded on a gas block he made from scratch.
It is extremely accurate now, but long and heavy.

I suppose I should grow up and put a Lothar Walther 1300 contour 54 ounce 26" 7mm barrel on a BAR chambered in 7mmRemMag... maybe in 2010.

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/CTGY/browning-gun-parts
They sell BAR parts, and if they don't work on them, they know someone who does.

This project is dead. The BAR is a sporting hunting rifle that sports typical hunting accuracy. Its design is not conducive for building a long range 7mmMag semi-auto target rifle with 1/2" - 5/8" groups. Anybody that claims their BAR rifle can regularly group like that is indeed lucky to have one that can. (I'll believe it when I see their 5 shot groups.) I believe anybody that owns one that can regularly shoot inside 1" MOA has a keeper. I wouldn't have any desire to start out on a $2,000 project it it's not going to be a 1/2" rifle with hand loads.

FYI, as mentioned in my opening post, MIDWESTGUN WORKS, is a joke. ie; When I asked them to install a custom barrel blank for me, I was annoyed with the pretty stupid response that they "suppose it can be done if I supply them with an already finished and ready to install barrel".

Should you want custom rebareling you might want to contact Dennis Olson or Greg Tannel. (Refer back to post #8 ).