Loads for a Krieger tight bore 308

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Martin64

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I recently chambered a 1:12 twist krieger barrel with a PTG Bisley 308 reamer. Finished length is 29". It is a 298/307 bore. I'm working on loads using the older (sierra 2155) 155 palma bullets, but not getting the accuracy I would hope. Anyone shoot one of these barrels and have a bullet and powder combo that worked great for them at long distance (1000 yards)?

edit: currently working with varget and the sierra 2155's.
 
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i recently chambered a 1:12 twist krieger barrel with a ptg bisley 308 reamer. Finished length is 29". It is a 298/307 bore. I'm working on loads using the older (sierra 2155) 155 palma bullets, but not getting the accuracy i would hope. Anyone shoot one of these barrels and have a bullet and powder combo that worked great for them at long distance (1000 yards)?

Edit: Currently working with varget and the sierra 2155's.

vv n140 / 44.3
 
Martin64

I use a stiff load of Varget (it won't be listed in any manual or here and requires a drop tube to fit below the neck), WLR or BR2 primers and the 2155 SMK for Palma in a 13 twist Krieger and a 15 twist Rock with excellent results. Both of those barrels are 30" long and chambered with a Palma '95 reamer and produce over 3000 fps with this load. Loaded length of 2.820". This same ammo has been shot in a Remington Model Seven with a 20" barrel with great results. PM me if you want additional particulars.

Greg
 
Martin64

I use a stiff load of Varget (it won't be listed in any manual or here and requires a drop tube to fit below the neck), WLR or BR2 primers and the 2155 SMK for Palma in a 13 twist Krieger and a 15 twist Rock with excellent results. Both of those barrels are 30" long and chambered with a Palma '95 reamer and produce over 3000 fps with this load. Loaded length of 2.820". This same ammo has been shot in a Remington Model Seven with a 20" barrel with great results. PM me if you want additional particulars.

Greg

Definately interested. Either of those a tight bore? The tight bore may increase pressures and limit charges sooner than a standard barrel.
 
I don't know what mine are. I bought them in a package. I'll check and get back to you. The US Rifle Team (Palma) specified 0.298 12" twist Kreigers for team rifles. I'm pretty sure their published nominal load is 47gr Varget behind a 2156 SMK in the "new" Palma chamber. The throat in this new (three years old) chamber doesn't work well with the old 2155 "tugboat" of which I have a large supply. Kent Reeve proved that at the World Championship. I shoot one grain more in my 13 and 15 for no good reason. 47gr does fine in my guns as well.

That red eight in the picture must have been less than 48gr. Ya, that's it. That's my story and I'm stikkin' to it.

Greg
 

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I am using the old Palma bullets, the 2155's which I won several hundred at matches. Maybe they don't perform well with the chamber from the PTG Bisley reamer? It's very hard to get target bullets here locally to test various options. I'd like to try the Lapua 155 bullets, and also the Sierra 175gr bullets. The Sierra 168's produced a 3/4" group at 100 yards, randomly distributed. The 2155 Sierras produced many tighter groups, but always contains an outlying shot that ruined the cluster that would have been 1/2".
 
Martin,

The 155, 168 and 175 SMK's all use the same ogive and all of the traditional chamber throats are designed around or at least work with that shape. The US Rifle Team more recently developed an alternative chamber throat optimized to the ogive of the much longer new Palma 2156 SMK. Some older chambers that are popular in the US (Palma 95) are a little tight compared to the Bisley and were too tight to comply with the international rules that are specified to insure safety with all NATO ammunition. Palma used to be shot with issued ammo, sometimes pretty lousy ammo. The home team would have the opportunity to optimize their rifles for this ammo and the visitors would be surprised. There are a lot of ways to compete.

Your Bisley chamber complies with the Bisley 150 Rule and is slightly roomier and has a longer throat than my Palma 95. One would expect slightly lower pressures from a Bisley chamber than a 95, all thing being equal which of course the seldom are.

The 168 SMK will approach 1/2 MOA in many factory rifles with 12" twist barrels and match ammo or handloads. So 3/4 MOA in your Krieger barreled rifle suggests some other problem. It should be knocking around 1/4 MOA at 100 with good handloads. You might try a box of Federal, Black Hills or Winchester match ammo loaded with the 168 SMK. You should expect 1/2 MOA. That might help an understanding of where to start looking, ammo, rifle or technique. It's probably not your bullets, barrel or chamber.


The good news is that there isn't anything more forgiving and easier to get good results from than a 308 unless it's a 6BR. You'll get there.

Greg
 
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I'll prepare some batches of ammo with progressively stiffer loads and see if it has any positive effect. How far off the lands do you seat the bullets? Mine should be 10 thou off the lands from my measurements.
 
Martin,

When I develop a load I do it at the range. I start with one case and reload it repeatedly at 10 thou into the lands with increasing charges until i get a loose primer pocket. Because each time the case is fired and the brass work hardens this last charge will be considerably above "max". Drop that load 1 gr and fire in a virgin case. If you get 1 thou case head expansion, consider that your starting max with virgin brass, or adjust accordingly. Load ten or twenty rounds of this in virgin brass. Fire two rounds at 100 yd. If they don't touch, seat two of the remaining loads 5 thou deeper in their cases and see if they touch when fired. Repeat. When you find two shots touching, fire a few more and see what kind of group you get. If you don't find a load that puts two touching by the time you are 30 thou off then go back to the loaded length that formed the best two shot group and start dropping the charge three/four tenths of a grain until you get something promising. Charge and seating depth are somewhat interactive so after you find a charge that works you should check for optimum seating depth again. Keep in mind that by the time you find perfection your barrel is toast and their is such a thing as good enough to go shoot matches. Now you have been talking about long range, out to 1 K. It is not likely that you will develop a load at 100 yd that will make you smile at 1000 yd. Move out to 300 or 500 yd and start working on reducing vertical. Don't try to get this done with a head or tail wind. And of course the finest refinement of of your load should be at the distance that you are going to compete.

You won't get this done in any short time. So you can do what I did when I stated shooting Palma and just load what a bunch of the successful shooters are shooting. The load I use has been tweaked up a little to account for my slower twist barrel and what is by now a longer throat. There is no cartridge for which the accumulated target experience is greater than the 308 Win. 47 gr Varget with the Sierra 2155's that you already have in a Winchester (or 46 for Lapua) case with a BR2 seated at 2.800" to 2.820" is where you almost certainly will find very good performance. If 47 gr creates too much case head expansion on virgin cases for good case life then drop it down a grain for two or three shots till your cases are toughened up from work hardening and take it back up.

In my opinion, if your rifle won't perform with this load there is something else wrong.

Let us know what you discover.

Greg

Oh, to answer your question specifically, 2155's are not at all fussy about seating depth as long as you are off. I doubt you'll find much accuracy difference between 10 and 40 thou as long as they are all the same.
 
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Thanks. Do you neck size only, or full length resize? My chamber is cut with very little excess headspace. 1 thou over go won't close.
 
Full length size every time with a Redding FL bushing die. A Palma 95 or a Bisley reamer is a good match for this die and the brass doesn't grow much like it does if shot in a larger production chamber like a Remington, Winchester, Ruger or Savage.
 
I have several .308's and they all shoot using Varget.

I also use Lapua Brass.

I do not full length size unless it is for an M1A. (I do not use Varget in the M1A)

I neck size only for bolt guns using the Lee Collect Die.

My bullet runout on a loaded round is 0.0015 max; which I measure just north of the case mouth.

I prefer Sierra 168 Match Kings. I start with a square jam, obtain the required velocity, then adjust seating depth; which at times gives amazing results.

I have won egg shoots with a .308 using this procedure.

Best Wishes
 
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